What Bible Translation Is Good?

[MorphRC]

NAB has a good translation. Stuck to the original quite good, however Protestant renderings got snuck in, thru the inter-faith translators, such as Luke 1:28, also there are some footnotes that are Protestant, and appear to contradict Catholic Doctrine. Apart from that, the authors are way, way to critical of the text, if St. Peter read what they wrote about his writings, he wouldnt trust them!

Edited September 4, 2004 by MorphRC

[carrdero]

Aloysius writes: pitchin your book again

I think the term you are looking for is "utilizing". Like when other people post Scriptural or other literal references.

Aloysius writes: why would you suggest getting info about the Bible from THE WATCHTOWER

Because the book is practical and helpful and not only tells you about the authors but about the timeline in which the books were written.

Aloysius writes: That's a Jehovah's Witness thing

Do you have anything against Jehovah Winesses? Do you have anything against other people?

Aloysius writes: also, your book-- not a good thing

Hmmm, open, honest REALationship with GOD. Isn't that what we are all trying to achieve?

Aloysius writes: yeah, anyway, from what i've seen of the excerpts of your book you posted here, I disagree with the book and if i had a copy with me, i'd probably burn it.

If you did own a copy of the book it would be yours to do with what you pleased. Though as the author I would not want anyone to own a copy of my book unless they really did want to understand and K(NOW) GOD.

[cmotherofpirl]

Since the Jehovahs Witnesses are not even christian why would we want their opinion on the Bible which is a Jewish - Catholic book?

If someone wants a real honest relationship with God, they can consult Him and the Church He established thru his Son, not some fanciful version of reality.

[carrdero]

cmotherofpirl writes: Since the Jehovahs Witnesses are not even christian why would we want their opinion on the Bible which is a Jewish - Catholic book?

Ah, but you see, the Jehovah Witnesses are a Christian organization who also believe they have the truth. And yes the Old Tesatament is a Jewish/Hebrew book which makes me wonder why all organized religions are not based firmly in Judaism. Besides, exploring different beliefs helps not only to rationalize/appreciate/shape why you believe things in a particular way but it is also informative on a cultural level as well.

cmotherofpirl writes:If someone wants a real honest relationship with God, they can consult Him and the Church He established thru his Son, not some fanciful version of reality.

Actually all you really need is GOD. There was GOD before there were churches.

[Aloysius]

God founded the Catholic Church.

Jesus Christ is God.

Jehovah's witnesses do not believe Jesus Christ is true God/true Man the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, so they are not Christian. They do not baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

and yeah, looking into their beliefs I have no problem with. but getting info about the Bible from them, no not a good idea.

umm... yeah, you continue to re-affirm that we do not have the same God. you have a fanciful imagined god through which you can make everything make sense to you (because it's scary for you to think that only one religion can be right about God, you make it as if all religions are wrong about God)

[flip]

i totally believe that the Church has the right teaching/interpretation of the bible...

i have a NAB Catholic study bible. It has some rad critical, historical, and contextual criticisms from Catholic scholars (my fav is Luke Timothy Johnson), But yeah, it has been a great bible for me, the biblical dork that i am...

except some of the OT (especially Jesus prophecies) are translated from the Septugint (Greek trans) and the problems occur in the NAB just as the NIV, King James, etc. However, you always get foot notes in this bible comapring it to the masoretic hebrew text... it awesome.

See, the problem is this: evangelical fundemntalists have taken the OT and translated from the Masoretic text, except the parts where it benefits thier claim, and then the quote from the Septugint. (ie, Paul only had the OT in Greek (Septugint) therefore, he quotes from it. Problem is, when he makes the prophetical links between Jesus and the OT, he is using a translated text, instead of the original. Evangelicals (and some Catholics) therefore put all the OT quotes from Paul in the Septugint translation, and take the rest from the Masoretic text...

[HartfordWhalers]

[quote name='flip' date='Sep 2 2004, 07:41 PM'] ive heard so much talk about loving the vulgate...
























i have always been taught that the vulgate is just a bad translation... [/quote]
No, in fact a Pope said that the Vulgate is just as good as the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. It is the most perfect translation, as decreed by a Supreme Pontiff of Holy Mother Church. The Vulgate is just as good as the original!

[Aloysius]

St. Jerome likely had manuscripts that are nowadays unavailable.

the Septuagint is the scripture that Jesus Christ and His Apostles used. the Jews of the first century wanted to distance themselves from all Christian things, so they took only books of the old testament of which the original hebrew texts still existed.

[carrdero]

Aloysius writes: God founded the Catholic Church.

In the beginning of my Bible it says “In [the] beginning GOD created heaven and earth”

Aloysius writes: Jesus Christ is God.

Jesus The Christ is a God, yes. (He’s also a superstar)

Aloysius writes: Jehovah's witnesses do not believe Jesus Christ is true God/true Man the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, so they are not Christian.

Hopefully this picture will help you understand where Jehovah Witnesses fit in the realm of organized religion.

[url="http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html"]http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html[/url]


Aloysius writes: and yeah, looking into their beliefs I have no problem with.

It is actually interesting to know how they arrive to their beliefs. And they are really nice people too. Next time they come to your door invite them in for a glass of water

Aloysius writes: but getting info about the Bible from them, no not a good idea.

They are very thorough with their Bible, a little toooo thorough.

Aloysius writes: umm... yeah, you continue to re-affirm that we do not have the same God.

It certainly doesn’t seem that way but yes you are still CORRECT

Aloysius writes: you have a fanciful imagined god.

I have a fanciful imagined GOD? No offense, but if I had a chance to go to Disney World again or St. John’s Cathedral in NYC I would ALL(WAYS) choose St Johns Cathedral. (DISCLAIMER: For those people who have actually visited St. John’s Cathedral you will understand that I am paying the highest compliment possible. Not seen pictures-no, no my friends, I mean actually been there). The GOD I speak about, has nothing on the many different organized religion’s fanciful decorative/ritualistic/scriptural imaginings.

Aloysius writes: through which you can make everything make sense to you

Not everything-I never said everything.

Aloysius writes: (because it's scary for you to think that only one religion can be right about God, you make it as if all religions are wrong about God)

From what I have understood from GOD there is no right or wrong religion. Every religion has some TRUTH here, some good there.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Sep 5 2004, 02:40 AM'] cmotherofpirl writes: Since the Jehovahs Witnesses are not even christian why would we want their opinion on the Bible which is a Jewish - Catholic book?

Ah, but you see, the Jehovah Witnesses are a Christian organization who also believe they have the truth. And yes the Old Tesatament is a Jewish/Hebrew book which makes me wonder why all organized religions are not based firmly in Judaism. Besides, exploring different beliefs helps not only to rationalize/appreciate/shape why you believe things in a particular way but it is also informative on a cultural level as well.

cmotherofpirl writes:If someone wants a real honest relationship with God, they can consult Him and the Church He established thru his Son, not some fanciful version of reality.

Actually all you really need is GOD. There was GOD before there were churches. [/quote]
JW's are not Christian. They deny the divinity of Christ. Along with that they have corrupted their Bibles, by deleting any verse or passage of Scripture that could possibly relate to some form of Divinity (NWT Translation). Among that, JW's believe that anyone outside its organization is Satanic, literally demons. They convert the children, and lay claim on them. Including breaking up families, reported incidents in America, Australia and England, have seen children, seeing their parents as satans and demons that cannot be trusted. The JW's tried converting my mum behind my back, then I found out, and they tried both converting us, they attacked me constantly, one male teenager only [17] at the time, converted to JWism and the mum was forced to also to convert, otherwise they threatened to 'protect' him from her.

Another time i went to an 'assembly', where a young 16yr old girl, disagreed with the 'elders', and she was announced by name, and family, and the family was removed from the Hall, and taken to a side room.

JW Doctrine are NOT Christian
JW Beliefs are NOT Christian
JW Conversion Tactics are NOT Christian
JW History is NOT Christian

JW's are as Christian as Hindus.

[carrdero]

MorphRC writes: JW's are not Christian. They deny the divinity of Christ. Along with that they have corrupted their Bibles, by deleting any verse or passage of Scripture that could possibly relate to some form of Divinity (NWT Translation). Among that, JW's believe that anyone outside its organization is Satanic, literally demons. They convert the children, and lay claim on them. Including breaking up families, reported incidents in America, Australia and England, have seen children, seeing their parents as satans and demons that cannot be trusted. The JW's tried converting my mum behind my back, then I found out, and they tried both converting us, they attacked me constantly, one male teenager only [17] at the time, converted to JWism and the mum was forced to also to convert, otherwise they threatened to 'protect' him from her.
Another time i went to an 'assembly', where a young 16yr old girl, disagreed with the 'elders', and she was announced by name, and family, and the family was removed from the Hall, and taken to a side room.
JW Doctrine are NOT Christian
JW Beliefs are NOT Christian
JW Conversion Tactics are NOT Christian
JW History is NOT Christian
JW's are as Christian as Hindus.

The pie doesn't lie
[url="http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html"]http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html[/url]

[carrdero]

Does anyone REMEMBER the translation of the Bible called THE WAY?

[MorphRC]

Wow. An online site says it, so its true.

The key part of Christianity, is worshipping Christ, do JW's do that?

[i]Jehovah's Witness Theology

Here are a few of their core beliefs. Jehovah is the one true God. [b]They deny the Trinity. Jesus was an exalted man that God used to create the earth, but Jesus himself is a created being-- not God.[/b] [b]Jesus has divine attributes, but is only god-like.[/b] When Jehovah raised Jesus from the dead, [b]Jesus was a spirit-being, not a physical being.[/b] The Holy Spirit is not a person, but a force. Only 144,000 people will go to heaven-- in general this includes only JW's alive in 1935. Other faithful JW's will have eternal life on paradise earth. All others disintegrate at death. There is no hell. [b]All "religions" besides JW are of the devil.[/b] [/i]

[url="http://www.gospelcom.net/faithfacts/jw.html"]http://www.gospelcom.net/faithfacts/jw.html[/url]

=============================================

[MorphRC]

[b]The Bibles of the Jehovah Witnesses, Then and Now:[/b]
A Look major changes in the text of the Bibles of the Jehovah Witnesses over the years.
[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/JW_bible_then_and_now.htm"]http://www.catholicapologetics.net/JW_bible_then_and_now.htm[/url]

=====================================================

[b]The Credibility Crisis of the New World Translation: The forward of the1950 edition of the NWT declared itself to be a uninspired and imperfect translation.[/b]
[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/JW_NWT_Credibility_Crisis.htm"]http://www.catholicapologetics.net/JW_NWT_...lity_Crisis.htm[/url]

[b]The 1950 NWT acknowledges "Yahweh'" as the correct pronunciation of God's name: You read that correctly, the Watchtowers own 1950 edition of the New World Translation stated that "Yahweh'" was the correct pronunciation of God's name.[/b]
[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/JW_1950_NWT_and_Jehovah.htm"]http://www.catholicapologetics.net/JW_1950...and_Jehovah.htm[/url]

[b]The Problems "The New World Translation": The following is a list of problems that we have found with the New world Translation. In many instances the meaning of the Bible has been changed by apparently deliberate mistranslations, additions, or omissions.[/b]
[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_62.htm"]http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_62.htm[/url]

[color=red][b]DOES THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS "BIBLE" "New World Translation" DELETES WHOLE VERSES?: The Only Bible the Jehovah's Witnesses will trust! The Bible only Jehovah's Witnesses would trust![/b]
[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_64.htm"]http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_64.htm[/url][/color]

[MorphRC]

Matthew 17:21 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."


Matthew 18:11 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."


Matthew 23:14 -- COMPLETELY removed. What arethe Jehovah's Witness missing?
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."


Mark 7:16 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."


Mark 9:44 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."


Mark 9:46 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."


Mark 11:26 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."


Mark 15:28 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."


Mark 16:9-20 (all 12 verses) -- They separated the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text in an appendix (of sorts) with this detracting statement: "Some late manuscripts and versions contain a short conclusion after Mark 16:8, as follows] (New World Translation, Revised 1984 edition)

Luke 1:28 - Vitally important phrase COMPLETELY removed. "blessed art thou among women"

Luke 17:36 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."


Luke 23:17 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)"


John 5:4 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
"For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."

[carrdero]

MorphRC writes: Wow. An online site says it, so its true.

Actually I have other evidence that Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian I just needed a good example to share with you on Phatmass.

MorphRC writes: The key part of Christianity, is worshipping Christ, do JW's do that?

Like a zealous apostle.

[MorphRC]

JW's dont worship Christ. I dont need to prove that, since they tried converting me. JW's aint Christian, no matter how much you try. They are infidels, disbelievers.

[Quietfire]

May I suggest "Where we got the Bible-our debt to the Catholic Church" by the Right Rev. Henry G. Graham.

Totally explosive.

It has the Nihil Obstat et Imprimatur

I believe it is in its 22nd or 23rd printing.

I would be more than thrilled to post an excerpts from it if anyone is interested.
It is dedicated to all lovers of the written word of God.
and I quote...
"I would not believe the Gospel unless moved thereto by the authority of the Church.-St. Augustine"

Peace.

P.S. JW believe that Jesus is either...
Michael the archangel
a spirit person
although they call him the son of God, they contradict that by stating he is one of the above.
They deny the Trinity. I had a JW tell me that if I believe in the Trinity, they will leave. She left.
They deny the divinity of Christ, yet call him the son of God. (confusing)
There are many other things.
One of their books stated that the Bible was WRONG in reference to a statement made by Christ in the same Bible. Thats a pretty bold (and personally-stupid) statement to make about the Holy Scriptures. Dont cha think?

Edited September 9, 2004 by Quietfire

[ironmonk]

[quote name='flip' date='Sep 2 2004, 09:41 PM'] ive heard so much talk about loving the vulgate...
























i have always been taught that the vulgate is just a bad translation... [/quote]
A better selection of answers would be:

Masoric vs. Septuagint.


The Septuagint (From about 293 BC) is the OT used by the Catholic Church.
It was used by Christ, The Apostles, and every Jew until 90 AD.

In 90 AD, the Jews (57 years after Christ took away their authority and gave it to the New Church) took books out of the Septuagint and translated the Septuagint to Hebrew to create the Masorah.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[flip]

is that true?

was the masoretic text translated from hebrew to greek then back to hebrew?

is that true???
that makes no sense to me... please enlighten me