Protestant Hymns And Worship Songs

[cathqat]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jan 15 2005, 07:15 PM'] The ELCA guy would claim it was the more commonly translated:

"A Mighty For-ortress i-is our God. A bulwark never fai-ai-ailing"

While the Missouri Synod guy was certain it was:

"A Mighty For-ortress i-is our God. A Trusty Sheild and Wea-ea-eapon" [/quote]
*LOL* Yes, the common translation is what the ELCA friend said. But the Missouri Synod friend's translation is closer to the original German. This disagreement seems to me an apt metaphor for the ELCA/Missouri Synod differences

That reminds me, just to take the thread on a complete tangent, of a story my undergrad advisor once told me. He had studied theology in Chicago many years back, and was in the city when the big Unitarian church downtown finally took down the cross from the top of the church and replaced it with a weathervane. He commented: "And I thought there couldn't be a more apt symbol for the Unitarian faith!"

Another funny story along the same lines: When I first went to Franciscan back in 1996, I found that one of my English professors from my undergraduate days had also moved there, so we decided to have lunch together to catch up. I didn't know he was Catholic, and he didn't know I was a convert, so we were having a lot of fun. Having learned that I was a recent convert, he asked what religion or denomination my parents were, and I told him that they were non-practicing Episcopalians. I laughed aloud when he responded "Well, that's a good thing not to practice!"

(BTW, the German title is "Ein Feste Burg," not "Eine." My German's gotten terrible )

[jezic]

this is a good idea.

How about city of God. That is objectionable on many grounds, not the least of which is "we are building the city of God, mayour tears be turned into dancing"

It is like look at us we are doing Gods work though we really just live in his city. I hope he notices and rewards us.

[bookwyrm]

"Mary Did You Know"

Which is silly, of course she knew because the angel told her! (Don't those silly Protestants ever read their Bibles? )

[danchinn08]

[quote] "Mary Did You Know"

Which is silly, of course she knew because the angel told her! (Don't those silly Protestants ever read their Bibles? tongue.gif )[/quote]

my aunt talked about how great that song was sung at a christmas evening mass in a neighboring town and so i looked up the lyrics on the net and i thought the same thing!

[Ellenita]

They have been running a 'most disliked' poll in some of the catholic papers to see which hymn/song came top.

The one that has the lyric 'go through the park and into the town....' featured considerably...can't remember what it's called! I'm not too fond of it myself!

One person nominated 'The Mass is Ended' because apparently her priest likes it so much they sing it at the end of every mass!

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='jezic' date='Jan 16 2005, 03:43 PM'] this is a good idea.

How about city of God. That is objectionable on many grounds, not the least of which is "we are building the city of God, mayour tears be turned into dancing"

It is like look at us we are doing Gods work though we really just live in his city. I hope he notices and rewards us. [/quote]
Wow so many Protestant songs in the Mass. I didn't even know. That specific one I have no qualms with, it seems consistent. I sing hymns and think to see if they are theologically correct. It's also when I sing Latin hymns I sometimes pronounce the letters in Classical Latin as opposed to Liturgical Latin...

God bless,

Mikey

[argent_paladin]

I would avoid any hymns that concentrate more on the singers than on God. As in "We are called, we are chosen, we are Christ for one another..." Or even ones that quote Christ in the first person "I am the Bread of Life". Of course, "Blessed Assurance" is right out. I think the poster was thinking of sola gratia (grace alone) for Amazing Grace, but I think it is ok.
As a rule of thumb, I would avoid most Catholic hymns after Vatican II, especially from 1965-1985, but more for aesthetic reasons than ideological (although many are pretty shaky). Most English translations of Latin hymns are pretty poor.
I would also avoid most of the environmental, cosmic or social justice hymns as well.

[melporcristo]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Jan 15 2005, 03:44 PM'] For some reason the P&W song [i]This is the Air I Breathe [/i]doesn't settle well with me. It's mostly because of the verse "this is my daily bread, spoken to me." It is very true that we are nourished in hearing the Word of God and reading the Bible, but anything about bread also needs to focus toward the Eucharist, and when the song was written I highly doubt it included that intention. For the same reason I think it's a little bit innapropriate for use during communion and adoration, but maybe I'm just thinking about it too much. [/quote]
the band leader changed the words to the song "Breathe" to : [i]this is my daily bread, your very flesh, broken for me.[/i] It works!

[melporcristo]

ALso, there is a song that states we are the bread broken for eachother. Social justice ... ahh ...

[jgirl]

[quote] ALso, there is a song that states we are the bread broken for eachother. Social justice ... ahh ...[/quote]

That song is awful (Ï myself am the Bread of Life/You and I are the Bread of Life...)! We weren't supposed to sing it in our dicoese, but my parish always did anyway. I would laugh hysterically when I heard it.

About the Lord of the Dance, our parish also had a thing for that song. I always loved how the tune was so happy and upbeat while, I think, one of the phrases was something like, "They ripped and they stripped and they hung me high and they left me there on the cross to die!" I couldn't help laughing because they were totally oblivious to what they were singing. It was sad, but funny.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]Just a question, why do so many people look for the limits of what is allowed instead of just singing Catholic hymns (really, they should be singing Gregorian Chant anyway, which would eliminate the heretical lyrics and sources).[/quote]

I agree. At mass instead of singing hertical songs with wacky theology, we should by singing gregorian chant. It is the only valid type of music in the mass. When i go to mass i feel like a protestant, with all these crazy songs. Don't push the limits of correcet hymns, we should stick with the traditional gregorian Chants

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 25 2005, 12:29 AM']
I agree. At mass instead of singing hertical songs with wacky theology, we should by singing gregorian chant. It is the only valid type of music in the mass. When i go to mass i feel like a protestant, with all these crazy songs. Don't push the limits of correcet hymns, we should stick with the traditional gregorian Chants [/quote]
Gregorian chant is certainly not the only music allowed at Mass.

[CarpeDiem88]

Uh Amazing Grace, no offense to anyone, but it has history behind it. It is a Protestant hymn, however it was adapted from slaves on plantations in the South. And I should know. I am a Southerner, just transplanted in PA.


Oh and btw, most of the Protestant hymns are old Catholic ones. Keep that in mind before you start picking everything apart.

Edited March 25, 2005 by CarpeDiem88

[hopeful1]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Jan 15 2005, 04:44 PM'] For some reason the P&W song [i]This is the Air I Breathe [/i]doesn't settle well with me. It's mostly because of the verse "this is my daily bread, spoken to me." It is very true that we are nourished in hearing the Word of God and reading the Bible, but anything about bread also needs to focus toward the Eucharist, and when the song was written I highly doubt it included that intention. For the same reason I think it's a little bit innapropriate for use during communion and adoration, but maybe I'm just thinking about it too much. [/quote]
actually i thought about that once or twice too, and we use that song alot for communion too. it doesn't bother me too much so i feel like it's still appropriate, although if you really had an issue about it, maybe switch the lyrics around to make the theology fit better, for example " This is the air i breathe (2x), your very word spoken to me. this is my daily bread (2x) your holy presence living in me". does that make it work better?


or if you really wanted to strech it, this is my daily bread (the true presence of the eucharist), your very word spoken to me ( Jesus said it was so in the bible, so it's true!) come on , work with me here!

Edited March 25, 2005 by hopeful1

[hopeful1]

[quote name='melporcristo' date='Jan 27 2005, 03:35 AM'] the band leader changed the words to the song "Breathe" to : [i]this is my daily bread, your very flesh, broken for me.[/i] It works! [/quote]
or you could do what he did -_-

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CarpeDiem88' date='Mar 25 2005, 01:31 AM'] Uh Amazing Grace, no offense to anyone, but it has history behind it. It is a Protestant hymn, however it was adapted from slaves on plantations in the South. And I should know. I am a Southerner, just transplanted in PA.


Oh and btw, most of the Protestant hymns are old Catholic ones. Keep that in mind before you start picking everything apart. [/quote]
where in PA?

[Mickey's_Girl]

[quote name='jgirl' date='Jan 27 2005, 02:55 PM'] About the Lord of the Dance, our parish also had a thing for that song. I always loved how the tune was so happy and upbeat while, I think, one of the phrases was something like, "They ripped and they stripped and they hung me high and they left me there on the cross to die!" I couldn't help laughing because they were totally oblivious to what they were singing. It was sad, but funny. [/quote]
AAAGGGHHH!!!

Thank you. That song drives me crazy. I love the tune, and the words are kind of cool (in a Chestertonian sort of way), but OH MY GOSH! The tune is all happy, and the "whipped/stripped" verse is just SO inappropriate to the tune! Drives me nuts every time we sing it...I keep wanting to like it, but THAT VERSE!!!

MG

[Aloysius]

Gregorian Chant is to have "pride of place" in the Liturgy of the Mass. Talk to a psychologist, they'll tell you why that is actually more spiritually beneficial (they'll use their psycho-babbel, but basically this is what they're saying) than most types of music.

that said, other hymns can and should be used at mass. they're great! Now, for something like the Agnus Dei, since Chant has pride of place for things that are specifically LITURGICAL, I would pick Gregorian Chant for. But for processional and closing hymns, or for any other hymn that is not specified in the liturgy you can and should pick whatever you want.

basically, I wouldn't recommend taking something that's supposed to be said in mass and putting it to some praise/worship music stuff, cause things specifically liturgical ought to consider gregorian chant first. But for the parts where we're going to have a song, it's fine to use normal songs.

and who the heck is reading Amazing Grace AND the Bible and finding the thing contrary to Catholic Teaching?

[quote] Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
[color=#FF0000]Yep, grace has SAVED me.  That doesn't mean I couldn't lose my salvation, but why the heck would you even be mentioning that scary and horrible possibility in an inspirational song?[/color]
'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved.
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.
[color=#FF0000]Grace works through faith, when we begin to believe, we begin to have faith, grace 'appears' in our soul, works through us[/color]
Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home.
[color=#FF0000]Amen, Alleleiuia, and Hallelujah!  Grace will lead me home.  Now, the obsessive 'Catholic' rationalist will say, it might not necessarily lead you home because you could end up not peresevering to the end.  but seriously folks, don't y'all want to say "grace will lead me home".  If you can't say that, where is your hope and joy in the light of Christ and the path towards salvation you're on.  Your hope in salvation should be STRONG.  [/color]
The Lord has promised good to me
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.
[color=#FF0000]yep. You don't have a promise of good through the faith you have found?  What kind of Catholic are you?  Your hope should be secure.  That's not to say that you couldn't choose to walk away, but you shouldn't want to choose to walk away [/color]
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
and mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.
[color=#FF0000]seriously, stop readin this with your rationalistic theological glasses and see the spiritual hope in this statement. [/color]
When we've been there ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.[
[color=#FF0000]Again, where is the problem???[/color]
[/quote]

Amazing Grace rules, and you know what it did? It saved a wretch like me. Grace saved me, grace is saving me, and grace will eternally save me if I persevere to the end. That's have a reasonable hope that we will persevere to the end, because God will hold us tight and do anything short of infringing upon the free will He gave to us to make sure we are saved.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Well With all these different hymns to pick from, with no set rules, some parishes will wrongly pick protestant hymns. Im not agianst normal hymns, its just that im afriad that parishes are using un-Catholic hymns, with incorrect theology. With the Gregorian hymns, no has to worry wether they are theologically "Sound"

just putting my two cents in,

sam

[Guest Eremite]

Here's a critique of "Amazing Grace" and "Mary Did You Know" by EWTNs Colin Donovan, STL:

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=371921&Forums=0&Experts=8&Days=3000&Author=&Keyword=Amazing+Grace&pgnu=1&groupnum=0"]http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.as...nu=1&groupnum=0[/url]