Index Page For The Reference Section

[phatcatholic]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=4464"][b]Sola Scriptura and the Canon of the Bible[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Logically Impossible
[*]No Basis in Scripture
[*]Historically Impossible
[*]Does Not Work in Practice
[*]No Grounds for Perspicuity
[*]Dubious Historical Development
[*]No Self-Authenticating Table of Contents[list]
[*]The Church and the Canon
[*]The Deuterocanonical Books
[/list]
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=4531"][b]Sacred Tradition[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Biblical Support
[*]Only Historically Logical Solution
[*]Sacred Tradition is the Word of God
[*]Is All Apostolic Teaching in the Bible?
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=4690"][b]Church Authority and Apostolic Succession[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Biblical Support
[*]Necessary to Maintain Unity
[*]Papal Infallibility
[*]The Authority of Ecumenical Councils
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=4908"][b]Peter and the Papacy[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Peter is "The Rock"
[*]Peter and "The Keys"
[*]Primacy of Peter Among the Apostles
[*]Primacy of the Bishop of Rome
[*]Peter's Roman Residency
[*]Papal Controversies
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=5421"][b]Mary[/b][/url][list]
[*][url="http://www.udayton.edu/mary/main.html"]the "mother" of all websites about Mary[/url]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Immaculate Conception[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]The Ark of the New Covenant
[*]The New Eve
[*]Exegesis of Luke 1:28
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Perpetual Virginity[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]The "Brothers" and "Sisters" of Jesus
[/list]
[*]Mother of God[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Our Spiritual Mother
[/list]
[*]Assumption
[*]Queen of Heaven
[*]Mediatrix/Co-Redemptrix[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Jesus' Sole Mediatorship
[/list]
[*]Devotion and Veneration[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Answering Common Objections
[*]Particular Devotions
[/list]
[*]Marian Apparitions
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=5831"][b]Communion of Saints[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Still Members of the Body
[*]Do Catholics Worship Saints?
[*]The Intercession of the Saints
[*]Statues and Icons
[*]Relics
[*]Becoming a Saint
[*]Doctors of the Church
[*]Patron Saints
[*]Popular Saints and Martyrs
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=5973"][b]Faith and Science[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Creation and Evolution
[*]Science and the Existence of God[list]
[*]Cosmological Argument
[*]Divine Design Argument
[/list]
[*]Miracles
[*]Galileo
[*]Science and Protestantism
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=6081"][b]Morality and Ethics: Part One[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Moral Absolutism vs. Relativism
[*]The Nature of Sin
[*]The Good and Virtuous Life
[*]Christian Sexuality
[*]Homosexuality
[*]Pornography
[*]Masturbation and Other Sexual Sins
[*][i]Humanae Vitae[/i]
[*]Abortion
[*]Contraception
[*]Natural Family Planning
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[*]Attachment: [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=97771"]Benedict Groeschel on the Virtues[/url]
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=15664"][b]Morality and Ethics: Part Two[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Bioethics
[*]Cloning
[*]Euthanasia
[*]Capital Punishment
[*]Just War Doctrine
[*]Catholics and Political Issues
[*]Using and Abusing Drugs and Alcohol
[*]Other Moral/Ethical Issues
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18902"][b]The Seven Sacraments[/b][/url][list]
[*]Introduction to the Seven Sacraments
[*]The Seven Sacraments[list]
[*][url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=6280"][b]Baptism[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Apparent Contradictions in the Bible
[*]Baptism is a Gift
[*]Infant Baptism
[*]Immersion Only?
[*]Born Again in Baptism
[*]Effects of Baptism
[*]Trinitarian Baptism
[*]Necessity of Baptism
[*]Norms and Requirements for Baptism
[*]Baptism by Blood or Desire
[*]Non-Catholics and Baptism
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]
[*][url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=6465"][b]Confession and Penance[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Examination of Conscience
[*]Confession
[*]Forgiveness of Sin
[*]Penance/Temporal Atonement
[*]Indulgences
[*]Norms, Requirements, and Abuses
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]
[*][url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=6565"][b]Eucharist and the Sacrifice of the Mass[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]The Real Presence
[*]The Eucharist and the Life of the Church
[*]Meditations on the Eucharist
[*]Effects of the Eucharist
[*]Eucharistic Adoration
[*]The Eucharist: Norms, Requirements, and Abuses
[*]Protestants and the Eucharist
[*]Apparent Difficulties in Scripture
[*]Controversies
[*]The Sacrifice of the Mass
[*]The Last Supper and the Passover
[*]Vessels, Vestments, and other Elements of the Mass
[*]Liturgy of the Mass
[*]The Mass: Norms, Requirements, and Abuses
[*]Sunday Worship
[*]Sunday Obligation
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]
[*][url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=6842"][b]Confirmation[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Effects of Confirmation
[*]Charisms, and Gifts of the Holy Spirit
[*]Distinct from Water Baptism and "Holy Spirit Baptism"
[*]Norms, Requirements, and Abuses
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]
[*][url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=6947"][b]The Christian Family and Holy Matrimony[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Marriage Preparation
[*]Marriage is Sacred
[*]Marriage and the Family
[*]Manhood, Fatherhood, and the Role of the Husband
[*]Womanhood, Motherhood, and the Role of the Wife
[*]Trinity and the Holy Family as Models for Marriage
[*]Annulment
[*]Divorce
[*]Cohabitation Before Marriage
[*]Sex Before Marriage
[*]Same-Sex Marriages
[*]Norms, Requirements, and Abuses
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]
[*][url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=7096"][b]Holy Orders and the Priesthood[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]The Sacrament of Holy Orders
[*]The Gift of the Priesthood
[*]An Apostolic Priesthood
[*]Roles and Responsibilities of the Bishop
[*]Pastoral Roles and Responsibilities
[*]Spiritual Formation for Priests
[*]Meditations on the Priesthood
[*]Distinction Between Ministerial Priesthood and Priesthood of the Baptized
[*]Celibacy
[*]Using the Title of "Father"
[*]The Ordination of Women
[*]The Role of Deacons
[*]Vocations and Discerning the Priesthood
[*]Seminaries and Seminarians
[*]Clerical Sexual Abuse
[*]Other Controversies in the Priesthood
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]
[*][url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=7470"][b]Suffering and the Anointing of the Sick[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Sacrament of Healing
[*]Norms, Requirements, and Abuses
[*]The Redeeming Value of Sickness and Suffering
[*]Refuting the Word-Faith Movement and a Health-Wealth Gospel
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Summa Theologica: Extreme Unction[list]
[*]Essentials and Institution
[*]Effects
[*]Minister
[*]Recipient
[*]Repitition
[/list]
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]
[/list]
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[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=7728"][b]Salvation, Justification, and Predestination[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Hope for Salvation vs. Assurance of Salvation
[*]Grace and Merit
[*]Controversies Concerning Grace
[*]Faith and Works by Grace vs. Faith Alone
[*]Predestination
[*]Total Depravity and Free Will
[*]Infused vs. Imputed Righteousness
[*]Salvation Outside the Church
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=8020"][b]Last Things[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Heaven
[*]Hell
[*]Purgatory
[*]Second Coming and the Final Judgment
[*]Resurrection of the Body
[*]The Rapture, Premillennialism, and Dispensationalism
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=8772"][b]Non-Catholic Christian Denominations[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Eastern Orthodoxy[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]The Filioque
[*]Petrine Primacy and the Roman Papacy
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Anglicanism[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Anglican Ordination
[*]The Real Presence
[*]Church Authority
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Protestantism: General[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Science
[*]Mariology
[*]Salvation
[*]Clerical Celibacy
[*]Authority
[*]Apostolic Succession
[/list]
[*]Fundamentalism
[*]Protestant Evangelicalism
[*]Baptist and Anabaptist[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Beliefs and Practices
[/list]
[*]Lutheranism
[*]Calvinism
[*]Pentecostalism[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]The Trinity
[*]"Jesus Only" Baptism
[*]The Workings of the Spirit
[/list]
[*]Seventh-Day Adventism and Sabbatarianism[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]The Sabbath Day
[*]Refuting Soul Sleep
[*]The Book of Daniel
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]The International Church of Christ[list]
[*]Catholic Perspective
[*]Perspective of Former Members
[/list]
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=8784"][b]Non-Christian Religions[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Judaism[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Jews and the Bible
[*]The Persecution of Jews
[/list]
[*]Messianic Judaism[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Jews for Jesus
[*]Messianic Jewish Alliance of America
[*]International Federation of Messianic Jews
[*]Critical Analysis
[/list]
[*]Islam and Muslims[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Islam and Our Modern War
[*]Islam and Jesus Christ
[*]Muhammad
[*]The Koran
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Jehovah's Witnesses[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Doctrinal Beliefs
[*]JW's and the Bible
[*]Specific Scriptural Difficulties
[*]JW's and Prophecy
[*]Using the Name "Jehovah"
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Mormonism[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Doctrinal Beliefs
[*]The Book of Mormon
[/list]
[*]Freemasonry
[*]Iglesia Ni Cristo ("Church of Christ" of the Philippines)[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]On Felix Malano
[*]Specific Beliefs and Practices
[/list]
[*]The Worldwide Church of God[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]The Lost Tribes of Israel
[/list]
[*]New Age[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Beliefs and Practices
[*]Evangelizing New Age Believers
[/list]
[*]Atheism and Agnosticism[list]
[*]Philosophical Arguments for the Existence of God
[*]Scientific and Empirical Arguments for the Existence of God
[*]Popular Works Against Unbelief
[*]Debating with Unbelievers
[*]Possible Causes of Unbelief
[*]Pillars of Unbelief
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=9728"][b]Anti-Catholicism[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Myths, Hoaxes, Lies, and Forgeries[list]
[*]Regarding the Papacy
[*]Regarding Religious Figures
[*]Regarding Church Belief and Practice
[/list]
[*]Other Warn-Out Allegations and Anti-Catholic Propaganda[list]
[*]The Church is the "Whore of Babylon"
[*]"The Church is Pagan"
[*]Dan Brown's [i]The Da Vinci Code[/i]
[*]Tim LaHaye's [i]Left Behind[/i] Series
[*]American Nativism/Know-Nothingism
[/list]
[*]The Usual Suspects[list]
[*][url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ450.HTM"]the greatest collection of refutations against popular anti-Catholics[/url]
[*]Loraine Boettner
[*]Jack Chick
[*]Charles Chiniquy
[*]David Cloud
[*]Jason Engwer
[*]David Hunt
[*]James McCarthy
[*]Maria Monk
[*]Eric Svendsen
[*]William Webster
[*]James White
[/list]
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=10116"][b]Practical Apologetics[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Apologetics for Beginners
[*]Online Reference Material[list]
[*]Church Documents
[*]Encyclopedias, Dictionaries, and Almanacs
[*]Other Document Archives
[/list]
[*]Online Bibles
[*]Other Tools for Apologetics
[*]Suggested Reading: Apologetics[list]
[*]Catholic
[*]General Christian
[/list]
[*]The Best of Catholicism in Mass-Media[list]
[*]Books
[*]Film
[*]Music
[*]Internet
[/list]
[*]Popular Catholic Apologists[list]
[*]David Armstrong
[*]Hilaire Belloc
[*]G.K. Chesterton
[*]Ronald Knox
[*]Fr. William G. Most
[*]John Henry Cardinal Newman
[*]Frank Sheed
[/list]
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=11558"][b]Theology of the Body[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Church Documents
[*]Sex and Procreation
[*]Marriage and the Family
[*]Christopher West
[*]Occasions for Learning
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=12032"][b]History of the Church[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Church Timelines
[*]The Church Established by Jesus and the Apostles
[*]The Councils of the Church[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments
[/list]
[*]The Crusades
[*]The Inquisitions
[*]The Protestant Reformation[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments
[/list]
[*]The Church and Slavery
[*]The Church and the Jews
[*]Development of Doctrine[list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Non-Catholics and Doctrinal Development
[*]The Development of Specific Doctrines
[/list]
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[*]Scripture References
[*]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers
[*]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[*]Audio Downloads
[*]Quotes from Phatmass Members
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=13407"][b]Catholic Prayer and Devotion[/b][/url]

[b]--under construction--[/b]

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[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=16424"][b]Testimony of the Early Church Fathers[/b][/url][list]
[*]Comprehensive Arguments
[*]Specific Arguments[list]
[*]Online Compilations of Early Christian Testimony
[*]Sola Scriptura
[*]Sacred Tradition
[*]Church Authority and Apostolic Succession
[*]Peter and the Papacy
[*]Mary
[*]Communion of Saints
[*]Faith and Science
[*]Morality and Ethics
[*]Baptism
[*]Confession and Penance
[*]Eucharist and the Sacrifice of the Mass
[*]Confirmation
[*]The Christian Family and Holy Matrimony
[*]Holy Orders and the Priesthood
[*]Suffering and the Anointing of the Sick
[*]Salvation, Justification, and Predestination
[*]Last Things
[*]Non-Catholic Christian Denominations
[*]Non-Christian Religions
[*]Theology of the Body
[*]History of the Church
[*]St. Augustine of Hippo[list]
[*]Biographies
[*]Commentary on [i]City of God[/i]
[*]Commentary on [i]Confessions[/i]
[*]Other Arguments
[/list]
[/list]
[*]Audio Downloads
[/list]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=17672"][b]Vatican II and Ultra-Traditionalism[/b][/url]

[b]--under construction--[/b]

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[color=red][b]--a work in progress--[/b][/color]

[phatcatholic]

hopefully, this will make it easier for everyone to find the information they are looking for?

do i not have what you need? let me know....

i posted this here b/c the reference section is very helpful when it comes to debate but, surprisingly, there are still many people who know not that it even exists.

[b]moderator:[/b] you may wish to pin this thread

Edited September 15, 2004 by phatcatholic

[amarkich]

Is there any thread you know of debunking the myth that the Church has defined BOB/BOD [i]De Fide[/i]? Also, are there any anti-BOB/BOD sources? I know I have debated about this several times, but I was wondering if there is any more extensive information on the subject. Thanks. God bless.

[littleflower+JMJ]

hpoe ppl see this and use the apologetics ref. section its awesome adn filled with so much stuff!

[phatcatholic]

Bombs Over Baghdad? hehe, sorry, i'm an Outkast fan.

seriously, BOB? BOD? (yea, i know, i should know what that stands for....)

[DominaNostra]

BOB is Baptism of Blood and BOD is Baptism of Desire. I think the person asking that question just wanted a reference that shows that the Church has not actually defined these as doctrines, that they are just speculation. It would be hard to prove this because the burden of proof, so to speak, is on the person trying to prove that they [i]are[/i] defined doctrines, so it would be hard to have a thread debunking BOB and BOD in this regard because the proof would not be made against the idea but there would simply be no support for the idea that they are [i]De Fide[/i].

[Guest lundercovera]

that's not Catholic Apologetics in our humble opinion.

[DominaNostra]

I think he was asking for links that showed that there is no declaration of any [i]De Fide [/i]teaching on those things, Baptisms of Blood and Desire. That issue is simply a matter of fact--whether or not the Church has taught these and they are [i]De Fide[/i]. I have never seen anything that the Church has defined them [i]Ex Cathedra[/i], and I do not think that they are [i]De Fide[/i], but there is no way to really "prove" this because you cannot prove that something did not happen; the burden is on the other side to prove that it is [i]De Fide[/i].

[phatcatholic]

articles about baptism of blood/desire:

--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/matt1.html"]Baptism of Desire: Exposing Feeneyite Errors[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/BAPTISM.TXT"]Baptism: Exerpts from Various Sources[/url]
--[url="http://www.cin.org/mateo/91092110.html"]Baptism of Desire: Are There Any UnBaptized Canonized Saints?[/url]
--[url="http://www.cpats.org/CPATSAnswerDirectory/Answers_to_Questions/2003_11NovermberQuestions/_2003NovWhatIsBaptismByImplicitDesire.cfm"]What Is Baptism by Desire?[/url]
--[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#X"]Substitutes for the Sacrament[/url]
--[url="http://www.freeyellow.com/members3/matt1618/florence.html"]The Councils of Florence and Trent, and St. Thomas Aquinas on Baptism of Desire[/url]
--[url="http://ccinfo.homepage.com/bod_trent.htm"]Baptism of Desire and the Council of Trent[/url]


these articles are also related to the issue and usually discuss BOB/BOD within the context of salvation outside of the catholic church:

--[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ169.HTM"]No Salvation Outside the Church: An Explanation[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1203"]Ignorance: Invincible and Vincible[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/How_to_Become_a_Catholic.asp"]How to Become a Catholic[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=964"]Is There Salvation Outside the Church?[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FEENEY2.TXT"]Leonard Freeney on "No Salvation Outside the Church"[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FEENEY.TXT"]Tragic Errors of Leonard Freeney[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/EXTRAECC.TXT"]No Salvation Outside the Church[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4084"]Salvation Outside the Church[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/CHURCHSA.TXT"]Which Church Saves?[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3447"]The Necessity of Being Catholic[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=674"]Is There Salvation Outside the Church?[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4085"]Can Outsiders Be Insiders?[/url]
--[url="http://cuf.org/member/withoutchurch.pdf"]Without the Church There Is No Salvation[/url]
--[url="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/a/salvation.html"]Who Will Be Saved?[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic-defense.com/no_salvation.htm"]No Salvation Outside the Church?[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/SPIRCATH.htm#10"]The Church Necessary for Salvation[/url]
--[url="http://css.catholicexchange.com/truthtract.asp?qid=67"]If "No Salvation Outside the Church" Is Infallible, How Can We Say Today that People Outside Can Be Saved?[/url]
--[url="http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/critic2.html"]"Mr. Critic" and Salvation Outside the Catholic Church[/url]
--[url="http://www.cathworld.org/worlds/bible/thedude/againstfeeneyism.html"]Against Feeneyism[/url]
--[url="http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/debate9.htm"]The Unam Sanctam "Problem" Resolved[/url]
--[url="http://www.envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.5/coverstory.html"]Can Outsiders Be Insiders?[/url]
--[url="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3517/nosalv.htm"]No Salvation Outside The Church?[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207fea3.asp"]The Church’s Position on Salvation outside the Church Is Unchanged [/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0302fea3.asp"]Salvation for Non-Christians Explained[/url]
--[url="http://www.freeyellow.com/members3/matt1618/desire.html"]The Case against Father Feeney[/url]
--[url="http://www.freeyellow.com/members3/matt1618/eens.html"]An Examination on Three [i]De Fide[/i] Decrees on "No Salvation Outside the Church"[/url]
--[url="http://www.freeyellow.com/members3/matt1618/eens2.html"]Is There Salvation for Non-Catholics?[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FEENEY2.TXT"]Leonard Feeney on "No Salvation Outside the Church"[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403sbs.asp"]Can Non-Christians Be Saved?[/url]


pax christi,
phatcatholic

[phatcatholic]

index page has been updated. go [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18865"][b]here[/b][/url]

Edited October 21, 2004 by phatcatholic

[phatcatholic]

the index page has been extensively updated.

go [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18865"][b]here[/b][/url]

[dUSt]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=18865"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=18865[/url]

[phatcatholic]

pham,

the entries to the reference section were preserved, they just aren't in the reference section. i searched for them all and placed them [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=34580"]here[/url] for your convenience. this will remain in place until the new design for the reference section can be implemented.

thank you for your patience

pax christi,
phatcatholic