Pentecostal Religion

[Norseman82]

[quote name='HartfordWhalers' date='Oct 1 2004, 10:50 AM'] Moreover, I Cor. does say women should have long hair (again morality doesn't change and up until the 1920s women having short hair was immoral): I Cor. XI. 6 & 15, 16: "But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head. ...But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the church of God."

IF IT IS A SHAME FOR A WOMAN TO BE MADE BALD, then let her cover her head. So, since a woman is to cover her head, we see that it is a shame for her to be made bald (read: short hair), as he shows in verse 15: saying that a woman ought to nourish her hair. Here he contrasts the hair of men and women. Moreover, this is NOT a custom, as I said before, since St. Paul says NATURE is the guide: "Doth not even nature itself teach you". [/quote]
Made bald - couldn't that just refer to shaving your head (like Sinead O'Connor)?

My mother had a bald head, but that was due to chemotherapy.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Sep 30 2004, 11:51 PM'] What?  Looking to find out where he lives.  Down here in the south, we call it "looking to see where the he racoon beds down'.  It's a prelude to a "stompin". 

[/quote]
In other places it's called "stalking" and it's a prelude to a "restraining order"...

[foundsheep]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 1 2004, 02:22 PM'] I am so pleased you don't rep the Church... [/quote]
Amen to that!

[Brother Adam]

And hartford is indeed wrong about protestant groups not being denominations. Even if he denies them being Christian, they still fall into the context of being a denomination, of whatever religion he thinks they may be part of.

[Brother Adam]

And I too cmom am very glad he doesn't rep the Church. Because if he did, I certianly would have never converted to Catholicism and may have become an athiest if I had not remained a Protestant.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Oct 3 2004, 10:44 AM'] And I too cmom am very glad he doesn't rep the Church. Because if he did, I certianly would have never converted to Catholicism and may have become an athiest if I had not remained a Protestant. [/quote]
me too.

[mulls]

isn't all this "who does or doesn't rep the church" stuff relative?

i mean i obviously don't rep the church, i don't claim to.

but who decides whether or not a catholic reps the church? dUSt? is everyone's credibility based on what he says?

just wondering.

[Guest Aluigi]

if you consistently undermine Church Teaching you do not rep the Church. simple.

[foundsheep]

Well he is the owner.

[Enda]

[quote name='foundsheep' date='Oct 3 2004, 04:53 PM'] Well he is the owner. [/quote]
Of Phatmass yes, the Church, no.

[foundsheep]

I meant that. Get your own website if you disagree with his.

[Guest Aluigi]

to call pentecostal it's own religion is not necessarily wrong. why? because we could not correctly call all of protestantism ONE religion, it is divided and full of different beliefs. but to call it a denomination is also correct, as far as it denominated from the Catholic Church. so long as we don't call Catholocism a denomination as well, it is correct. they are imperfectly united to the Church because they call upon Christ who they retained knowledge of even after splitting from the Church. Catholocism is the One True Religion, and those who profess to believe in Christ can, so long as they are inculpable for the sin of seperation, be united to that one true religion in some way.

as for St. Paul and clothing issues... to a certain extent we cannot merely chalk it up to cultural differences. but dresses/pants stuff is just overly legalistic failing to see the complexities of what defines male/female clothing. female pants exist and should be worn by females only. male pants exist and should be worn by males only. there are male robes, to be worn by males only. female dresses, to be worn by females only. i really wish women would cover their heads again in Church, but it's up to the Church to require that. i believe that subject should remain open for discussion, but i don't believe one can condemn the Church for allowing women to go without headcoverings.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='mulls' date='Oct 3 2004, 03:45 PM'] isn't all this "who does or doesn't rep the church" stuff relative? [/quote]
It's to help members see who and who does not accurately portray the Church's teachings. Such as those who are non-Catholic Christians or are Catholics that rebel against Vatican II.


[quote]i mean i obviously don't rep the church, i don't claim to.[/quote]

That's fine, the title isn't ment to be offensive. Just a warning sign for those who are new to Phatmass and may think you're Catholic.


[quote]but who decides whether or not a catholic reps the church? dUSt? is everyone's credibility based on what he says?[/quote]

I cannot say if he's the sole person that makes the decision, because I don't know. However, [b]dUSt[/b] is a trustworthy man who follows the teachings of the Church 100% (to the best of his abilities). He's an orthodox Catholic, which we all strive for (or should).

[Freaky Chik]

I go to a pentecostal church, and I wear jeans to church

Ive never heard of what you guys are talking about, before.

Perhaps its an american thing, or whatever.

[Socrates]

Haven't we been over this pants and hair stuff before.

I think basic common sense (yeah, I know, a rare thing) should guide our understanding of St. Paul's words.

He's preaching against cross-dressing, etc.
Men should not cross-dress or dress or groom effeminately.
Women should not dress or groom in a "butch" or masculine style.

The exact nature of men's and women's clothing changes through time and in different cultures, but everyone has a good idea of what's male and female clothes. (Though of course, there are certain modern fashions that should be avoided by Christians)

In the late middle ages (Whaler's period for the establishment of "masculine clothes), men (at least of the nobility) liked to prance around in tights. I personally don't think that particularly manly or modest.

Are all those Scotsmen who wore kilts condemned to hell?
(You don't haveto answer that, Whalers).

Edited October 4, 2004 by Socrates

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 4 2004, 02:58 PM']
Are all those Scotsmen who wore kilts condemned to hell?
(You don't haveto answer that, Whalers). [/quote]
I sure as hell hope not. I like kilts.

[img]http://fiannaeireann.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/irelandC.gif[/img]

Edited October 5, 2004 by popestpiusx

[Guest jaws-3]

First of all, please be kind. This is my first post here. I was baptised as a Catholic and raised as a Lutheran. I am now a member of an Assemblies of God church where I have been now for eight years. It is pentecostal but not legalistic like i see discribed in the posts here. We have three services every weekend and over 2000 attend. Women can dress as they like to church. On any given Sunday, you will see women wear anything from Sunday Best to tube tops. Women wear jeans (men's clothes?) to casual church events. Most people dress with modesty at church but not because we have a rule but because a modest look does not suggest one is looking for something other than God at church. I live in Southern California and most most of the year even church-going people men, women, and children wear shorts t-shirts, sandles, and sun screen when out in public. I have not seen any cross dressers but maybe they are just good at it. We do have some teenaged boys and men who wear earings but not to look like or act like women. I believe Paul was speaking of a man pretending to be a woman and a woman pretending to be a man, reminding us of how this is an abomination to God, spoken of in Leviticus 18:22. But Paul also told us to be careful to not follow those who make their own laws, 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2.

Edited October 14, 2004 by jaws-3

[CatholicforChrist]

Wow, I just read that thread and I cannot believe that people are so uncharitable. It is so offensive that people will condemn or speak hatefully of another person when he is basically just saying exactly what every Catholic believed less than 50 years ago. That is outrageous. If someone would fail to convert because of what the Church and the Bible say, then I think he probably should've never converted to begin with. I would've never converted had I been exposed to the modernism and relativism by most Catholics, especially concerning the inerrancy of the Bible (on the literal level) and the infallibility of the Church on matters of doctrine. I would've never converted if this had been the first Catholic experience I ever had (unless I had read things from people like Hananiah and popesaintpiusx and Hartford and some other people). I am offended by the way that people are so uncharitable. If I had heard Catholics saying things like this: "I'm glad you don't rep the Church" I would've never converted--who are you to say who represents the Church? That is so hypocritical. That kind of disunity and hateful speech is such a scandal, and if I had been exposed to that sort of thing, I would've never converted. Deo gratias for the Traditional movement in the Church that is such an example of genuine Catholicism! Without this, I would've never converted.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatholicforChrist' date='Oct 15 2004, 06:22 PM'] Wow, I just read that thread and I cannot believe that people are so uncharitable. It is so offensive that people will condemn or speak hatefully of another person when he is basically just saying exactly what every Catholic believed less than 50 years ago. That is outrageous. If someone would fail to convert because of what the Church and the Bible say, then I think he probably should've never converted to begin with. I would've never converted had I been exposed to the modernism and relativism by most Catholics, especially concerning the inerrancy of the Bible (on the literal level) and the infallibility of the Church on matters of doctrine. I would've never converted if this had been the first Catholic experience I ever had (unless I had read things from people like Hananiah and popesaintpiusx and Hartford and some other people). I am offended by the way that people are so uncharitable. If I had heard Catholics saying things like this: "I'm glad you don't rep the Church" I would've never converted--who are you to say who represents the Church? That is so hypocritical. That kind of disunity and hateful speech is such a scandal, and if I had been exposed to that sort of thing, I would've never converted. Deo gratias for the Traditional movement in the Church that is such an example of genuine Catholicism! Without this, I would've never converted. [/quote]
Sometimes the truth is uncharitable.

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='jaws-3' date='Oct 14 2004, 09:46 AM'] First of all, please be kind. This is my first post here. I was baptised as a Catholic and raised as a Lutheran. I am now a member of an Assemblies of God church where I have been now for eight years. It is pentecostal but not legalistic like i see discribed in the posts here. We have three services every weekend and over 2000 attend. Women can dress as they like to church. On any given Sunday, you will see women wear anything from Sunday Best to tube tops. Women wear jeans (men's clothes?) to casual church events. Most people dress with modesty at church but not because we have a rule but because a modest look does not suggest one is looking for something other than God at church. I live in Southern California and most most of the year even church-going people men, women, and children wear shorts t-shirts, sandles, and sun screen when out in public. I have not seen any cross dressers but maybe they are just good at it. We do have some teenaged boys and men who wear earings but not to look like or act like women. I believe Paul was speaking of a man pretending to be a woman and a woman pretending to be a man, reminding us of how this is an abomination to God, spoken of in Leviticus 18:22. But Paul also told us to be careful to not follow those who make their own laws, 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2. [/quote]
jaw-3,

Welcome to phatmass, I hope you enjoy it here.