qfnol31 Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 (edited) Why does St. Peter's Bascilica in Roma face west? It doesn't make much sense. Edited October 3, 2004 by qfnol31
Pio Nono Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 JMJ 10/3 - Twenty-seventh Sunday I actually just got back from a beatification at St. Peter's. St. Peter's actually faces east - the Pope has always said Mass "facing the people," if you will. However, during Mass, the people would never face the Holy Father - they'd always be looking at the back of the basilica. They couldn't build a church in a normal fashion because, at the time of the building of the old basilica (~400AD), there was a hill behind where the sanctuary was supposed to be built, which was right on top of St. Peter's bones.
qfnol31 Posted October 3, 2004 Author Posted October 3, 2004 So why don't they face that way any more?
Pio Nono Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 JMJ 10/3 - Twenty-seventh Sunday The people just changed the custom, I guess.
Enda Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 (edited) Because we are living in the modern [color=red][b]edited by foundsheep [/b][/color]world were looking at people is considered courtsey. Edited October 3, 2004 by foundsheep
Pio Nono Posted October 4, 2004 Posted October 4, 2004 JMJ 10/4 - St. Francis of Assisi Actually, "looking at people" or facing the people during the Liturgy is a part of the liturgical movement which came out of Belgium in the mid-to-late 1800s. Latin Catholics adopted the practice as an option in the years following Vatican Council II. The Melchites and Syro-Malabar picked it up around then as well; I don't know whether the Ambrosians or the Mozarabs face the people.
qfnol31 Posted October 4, 2004 Author Posted October 4, 2004 It's sad though, I miss looking towards God.
Guest JeffCR07 Posted October 5, 2004 Posted October 5, 2004 As can be found in Cardinal Ratzinger's [u]Spirit of the Liturgy[/u], it is possible to be "looking towards God" simply by focusing on the crucifix, which is our "spiritual east" and reminds us of the sacrifice of Christ across both Time and Space.
Guest Aluigi Posted October 5, 2004 Posted October 5, 2004 here's a question... should i bug my pastor with the suggestion that the processional cross should be placed in front of the altar (it has a simple stand which could easily be moved there) so that the symbolism of the Spiritual East is returned to our Liturgy?
Ash Wednesday Posted October 5, 2004 Posted October 5, 2004 You mean we don't face Mecca? Oops, wrong religion! Sorry. I couldn't help myself.
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 5, 2004 Posted October 5, 2004 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Oct 3 2004, 08:01 AM'] JMJ 10/3 - Twenty-seventh Sunday I actually just got back from a beatification at St. Peter's. [/quote] I was there too! Were you sitting? How close? Where at?
Pio Nono Posted October 5, 2004 Posted October 5, 2004 JMJ 10/5 - Twenty-seventh Tuesday [quote] I was there too! Were you sitting? How close? Where at? [/quote] Yeah, I was sitting with a few people from the college I'm studying at this semester. Three of us were in cassocks; we were sitting in the front section of general admission seating, on the middle-right side, near the middle of the section. We sat a few rows back from the Argentinians, right in the middle of the Anne Catherine Emmerich cheering squad. Did you happen to spot Lady Hapsburg pay her respects to the Holy Father? If you noticed, all of the Hapsburg women were dressed in black, wearing black veils - except for one, who wore all white. That was Lady Hapsburg.
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Oct 5 2004, 03:56 PM'] JMJ 10/5 - Twenty-seventh Tuesday Yeah, I was sitting with a few people from the college I'm studying at this semester. Three of us were in cassocks; we were sitting in the front section of general admission seating, on the middle-right side, near the middle of the section. We sat a few rows back from the Argentinians, right in the middle of the Anne Catherine Emmerich cheering squad. Did you happen to spot Lady Hapsburg pay her respects to the Holy Father? If you noticed, all of the Hapsburg women were dressed in black, wearing black veils - except for one, who wore all white. That was Lady Hapsburg. [/quote] I was sitting just on the other side then... across from the Argentinians! I was really close to the center aisle on the right side. As to the Hapsburgs, I did watch, but didn't take notice of that.. I was trying to see what Otto looked like since he is coming to speak later on this semester. What college are you at?
Pio Nono Posted October 7, 2004 Posted October 7, 2004 JMJ 10/7 - Our Lady of the Rosary (Our Lady of Victory) [quote]What college are you at?[/quote] I'm studying for the University of St. Thomas, Minnesota as a part of a Study Abroad program. I'm studying at the Angelicum this semester.
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 7, 2004 Posted October 7, 2004 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Oct 7 2004, 06:25 AM'] JMJ 10/7 - Our Lady of the Rosary (Our Lady of Victory) I'm studying for the University of St. Thomas, Minnesota as a part of a Study Abroad program. I'm studying at the Angelicum this semester. [/quote] Ah, cool. My spiritual director is now studying at the PNAC, that's why I was asking.
Theoketos Posted October 12, 2004 Posted October 12, 2004 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Oct 5 2004, 02:21 AM'] You mean we don't face Mecca? Oops, wrong religion! Sorry. I couldn't help myself. [/quote] They stole that Idea from us, btw
popestpiusx Posted October 12, 2004 Posted October 12, 2004 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Oct 4 2004, 11:15 AM'] JMJ 10/4 - St. Francis of Assisi Actually, "looking at people" or facing the people during the Liturgy is a part of the liturgical movement which came out of Belgium in the mid-to-late 1800s. Latin Catholics adopted the practice as an option in the years following Vatican Council II. The Melchites and Syro-Malabar picked it up around then as well; I don't know whether the Ambrosians or the Mozarabs face the people. [/quote] Only a very small faction of the liturgical movement ever supported Mass facing the people. The Melkites do not. The Syro-Malabar folks were told to stop. The Ambrosians and Mozarabs do not either, or at least, it is not part of the ritual. If individual priests do it, then they do so in violation of the rubrics. As far as the Latin Church is concerned, it is not required. A priest is completely free to say Mass ad orientem without special permission.
Theoketos Posted October 12, 2004 Posted October 12, 2004 ^Unless of Course the Local Ordinary says not to, as most of America has... (BTW God bless the FSP)
qfnol31 Posted October 12, 2004 Author Posted October 12, 2004 But can the local ordinary actually do that? I wouldn't think they could go against the norms implied in the GIRM...
popestpiusx Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 [quote name='Theoketos' date='Oct 12 2004, 05:47 PM'] ^Unless of Course the Local Ordinary says not to, as most of America has... (BTW God bless the FSP) [/quote] The local ordinary oversteps his authority if he attempts to say no. He can not forbid what Rome allows. That would be akin to a bishop attempting to forbid the use of the Roman Canon at Mass. He can say it all he wants, but he hasn't the authority to actually force it.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now