John Kerry and abortion

[goldenchild17]

There is a thread that I've been reading and would like some answers too.

Just these posts in particular for now...
[quote]
Second, I think Kerry will be more effective at reducing the number of abortions over the next four years. You're probably thinking "how can anyone say that?" Let's ignore Bush's rhetoric for just a moment and take a look at actual numbers. Note that I gathered these numbers from a Pro-life organization's website, a group that supports Bush. Throughout the 90s, abortion rates were steadly decreasing. During the decade they declined by about 17.4%. When Bush took office, abortion rates were at an all time low since they were declared legal. One would expect that, especially after the bassing of the Partial-Birth abortion ban, the rates would continue to fall, perhaps even drastically. Well, in fact, they did just the opposite. Enough states report an increasing abortion rate in the past 4 years to cause the overall number of abortion procedures in the country to increase. INCREASE. Sure, I wasn't upset to see the PB abortion ban pass but I belive that any abortion is wrong, so really, it has done nothing! Bush can pass all the abortion-restricting legislation he wants but until he considers the reasons for which women choose to undergo the procedure and does something to actually reduce the number of abortions in this country, I won't vote for him. Here's why I predict that under the Kerry administration, abortion rates will turn back to decreasing. Let's look at why women choose to get abortions. Most women (about 60%) opt for the procedure because they believe they can't afford to take care of a child. Others say they are worried about adequate health care for themselves and a child. Starting to see it? Bush, while being "pro-life," has actually contributed to the reasons abortion cases are on the rise. Unemployment has increased. There are millions in this country who can't even afford regular doctor's vists. Millions without insurance. The minumum wage hasn't been raised in 7 years despite ever-increasing inflation (and gas prices). Bush's policy has caused this and will continue to worsen if he's re-elected, and abortion rates will continue to increase. Even though Kerry is Pro-choice, his domestic and economic policy will help in reducing the number of women under the most common circumstances for wanting the procedure. An abortion is an abortion, no matter if it's 9 months after conception or 9 hours. Bush has done nothing, he's made it worse. Until there is a pro-life candidate committed to reducing the number of abortions in the country instead of increasing their number of evangelical votes, they won't see my vote.[/quote]

and this next one gives some statistics that I have heard are incorrect, but I can't find any accurate statistics.

[quote]According to the CDC, In 1980, when Regan took office, there were 1.25 million abortions. In 1988, there were 1.35. In 1992, there were 1.43. During 12 years of pro-life Republican presidents which weakened the social services in the country there was a rise of 200,000 abortions per year. Under Clinton, a strong pro-choice president (who said that abortions should be legal but rare) the number dropped to around .85 million in 2000. That is a drop of 600,000 in four years. There are many factors that contribute to this, but a large one is the providing of strong social services so that women do not feel the need to have abortions.[/quote]

[D0RK4JP2]

I'll say two things about that:

1) The reason the amount may have gone done is because of increased use of contraceptives, so the figure of reduction of abortions may be misleading because it does not take into account the pregnancies that were 'intercepted' by the pill (not to mention the other types), or 'terminated' by the 'morning after' pill. The morning after pill is not classified as an abortion.

2) John Kerry is being tried for Herecy by a Canon Lawyer in America for publicaly condoning the procurement of any type of abortificient. Here is an [url="http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?art_id=22627"]ARTICLE[/url] that desribes John Kerry's position, and here is an [url="http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040630-111108-2541r.htm"]ARTICLE[/url] describing briefly his crime of herecy.

JMJ.

Edited October 26, 2004 by D0RK4JP2

[phatcatholic]

anyone else?

(i may be able to respond later.....)

[goldenchild17]

I don't really know what to say about it. This is the discussion over on christianguitar.org/forums Some good Catholics are falling into this, and I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject to say much about it...

[phatcatholic]

goldenchild.........ur probably not gettin much help on this one b/c everyone is pretty worn out by this topic. the whole thing will be decided rather shortly......

[StColette]

Exactly Phat we're all exhausted from this election and everything it has brought with it. I'm going to be so glad when it is over with

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='StColette' date='Nov 2 2004, 02:34 PM'] Exactly Phat we're all exhausted from this election and everything it has brought with it. I'm going to be so glad when it is over with [/quote]
Even a hawkish partisan like myself is pooped out...this whole election is just ridiclous...

[Balthazor]

Ummm.... You always have me to speculate about politics with .....
but just please clarify your question.

[cmotherofpirl]

Most women getting an abortion are middle-class white women, not poor unwed mothers.

I know in PA, you get free food with the WIC program, and free medical care. You can get baby clothes and furniture from various agencies and the hospital provides the carseat.

[luciana]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 4 2004, 09:16 PM'] Most women getting an abortion are middle-class white women, not poor unwed mothers.
[/quote]
[b]
CDC #'s which tend to be lower, they are voluntary reports[/b]

Abortion Surveillance—United States, 2000
adobe PDF logo View PDF 366KB-- [color=blue] Go to the website belowto see the full pdf file [/color]
In 2000, 857,475 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC. This total represents a .5 percent decrease from the 861,789 abortions reported in 1999. When the same 48 reporting areas are compared to the total number of abortions, the total dropped 1.3 percent between 1999 and 2000. The abortion ratio for 2000 has approximately returned to the levels reported in 1974. The ratio was 246 legal induced abortions per 1,000 live births, compared to 256 in 1999. The abortion rate was 16 per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years. For 1997 through 1999, the abortion rate was 17 per 1,000 women in this age range. [b]As in the past, a higher number of abortions were obtained by white women, unmarried women, and women less than 25 years of age.[/b] More than half (58%) of the reported legal induced abortions were performed during the first 8 weeks of gestation; 88% were performed within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Source: MMWR, November 28, 2003/Vol.52/No.SS-12.

from [url="http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/surv_abort.htm"]http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/surv_abort.htm[/url] ---bold added by me.

[b]Alan Guttmacher Institute, a branch of Planned Parenthood,#'s are better, they actively get the info.[/b]

link for info. in PDF file [url="http://www.agi-usa.org/presentations/trends.pdf"]http://www.agi-usa.org/presentations/trends.pdf[/url]

According to them: abortion rate rose right after it was made legal nationwide and then began to decline in the 80s. Abortion rate for teens went down in the 80s too and has continued to decrease ( also like mentioned b4, probably due to contraception) The # of abortion providers rose till 1982 and then has decreased ever since.So, it didn't rise under Reagen.

Also, acc. to them white women account for the majority of abortions, but the proportion of abortions given to white women has declined steadily. poor and low-income account for more than 1/2 of the abortions. and Actually the number of abortions by Hispanic women went up in the 90s (that would be under Clinton's so-called better economy)

[Phatmasser777]

If America wasnt a Secular state, then Kerry [who in his private life is against abortion], could openly state that he is anti-abortion because he is Catholic, without a backlash against the secularists. Bush is extremely border-line in the secular laws. Since the US is a secular state, personal beliefs should not be forced on the people, but since American is like 63% Evangelical you wont be seeing a non-christian ever get into office.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Nov 30 2004, 02:53 AM'] If America wasnt a Secular state, then Kerry [who in his private life is against abortion], could openly state that he is anti-abortion because he is Catholic, without a backlash against the secularists. Bush is extremely border-line in the secular laws. Since the US is a secular state, personal beliefs should not be forced on the people, but since American is like 63% Evangelical you wont be seeing a non-christian ever get into office. [/quote]
Kerry is not privately pro-life. No man can serve two masters.

[Phatmasser777]

Yes he is. He has stated it many times, including 3 clips shown on ABC. Dont let ur hate for people get in the way of truth.

Be Catholic BEFORE American Raph.

[qfnol31]

It's not good to say you're against it and then support it. You'll contradict yourself.

[Phatmasser777]

Personal beliefs are to be left at home, the beliefs of your voters are the ones you follow, since they are the ones that vote you in. That is a secular society, that is the American society. Your punishing Kerry for actually following the secular tradition, that was made.

[Quietfire]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Dec 2 2004, 02:29 AM']Yes he is. He has stated it many times, including 3 clips shown on ABC. Dont let ur hate for people get in the way of truth.

Be Catholic BEFORE American Raph.[/quote]
Thats just it though..
He is 'American' BEFORE Catholic.

Men who have no faith, can separate from their daily lives.

Men who do....CANNOT.

Nobody would have thought less of Senator Kerry if he had 1. stated he was Catholic and 2. fought against legalized abortion.
In honesty, then I would have voted for him.
This isnt 'hate', but Truth.
I would have been happy to dance all the way to the polls in support of him had he stuck to his guns on this issue.

But to say or claim that you are Catholic, a practising Catholic, receiving the eucharist, and then claiming that in private you are against abortion, but in public you are following the will of 'the people'. ????? You are then serving two masters.

You cannot serve two masters.



Pax

Edited December 2, 2004 by Quietfire

[phatcatholic]

Phatmasser777..............debating is NOT allowed in this board. your side has been presented. please try to leave it at that. if you wish to debate this topic, please start a thread in the debate board

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Dec 2 2004, 08:29 AM'] Personal beliefs are to be left at home, the beliefs of your voters are the ones you follow, since they are the ones that vote you in. That is a secular society, that is the American society. Your punishing Kerry for actually following the secular tradition, that was made. [/quote]
LoL, go read my thread in the Debate Table (buried) on the Natural Law. Our country's founded on ideas that Kerry contradicts. I'd rather not start a debate here, so I'll leave it at that.

[Phatmasser777]

Not debating at all. Sorry if it seemed that way. Just trying to give both sides and not one.