Vatican II

[Theoketos]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Nov 3 2004, 09:09 PM'] Oh really? St. Paul says differently..

[/quote]
What I said is not contrary to St. Paul. And I think that the quote is slightly out of Context. What I think what St. Paul is saying there is that man can not become righteous through his own good deeds/ works. Which is also to say that just because man says it is good does not mean that it is good.

When people sin and they turn away from [i]the Good[/i], who is God. They, in a manner of speaking, commit Idolatry, by replacing [i]the good[/i] with [i]a[/i] good.

Every good, is only good, as it share in the presence of God. Things that are less good are that way because they lack a certain amount of God.

I so knew you were going to say this btw ICTHUS, and I am glad that you did. So that I could further clarify. Next time I will anticipate.

[Justified Saint]

[quote]Here you would have Paul contradicting himself, by your reading of the text. Certainly, whoever fears Him is acceptable, but who is it who acts uprightly and fears Him, but the one upon whom He has mercy (Romans 9)[/quote]

No, just contradicting your interpretation. Does it not say that God shows no partiality and that all who act right are acceptable to him? Again, this is the Pantheist identiy to Protestantism - it essentially denies creation. What God has created He has called good.


[quote]God is not the author of sin. He foreknew and predestined it for His glory, but it is creatures who execute it. [/quote]

He foreknew and predestined sin, therefore he authored it. You admit it yourself.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Justified Saint' date='Nov 4 2004, 02:49 PM']





[/quote]
[quote]No, just contradicting your interpretation.  Does it not say that God shows no partiality and that all who act right are acceptable to him? [/quote] I addressed this before. However,

1. All who act right - all those who are in Christ, who act rightly, yes. Unbelievers are unacceptable in God's sight, as is made clear by the manifold testimony of the Word.

2. God shows no partiality - absolutely! Therefore, He has mercy on whom He will, and hardens whom He will! (Cf. Romans 9)

[quote]Again, this is the Pantheist identiy to Protestantism - it essentially denies creation.  What God has created He has called good.    [/quote] How do we deny Creation? This is just another strawman..

[quote]He foreknew and predestined sin, therefore he authored it.  You admit it yourself.[/quote] Of course I admit it. The idea is explicitly Scriptural (cf. Proverbs 16:4)

[Justified Saint]

[quote]1. All who act right - all those who are in Christ, who act rightly, yes. Unbelievers are unacceptable in God's sight, as is made clear by the manifold testimony of the Word.

2. God shows no partiality - absolutely! Therefore, He has mercy on whom He will, and hardens whom He will! (Cf. Romans 9)[/quote]

Except the Acts verses were in the context of the centurion named Cornelius who was not a believer. The cenutrion was the man acting uprightly and fearing the Lord. Your forced read of Calvinism throws the whole text of scripture into disarray.


[quote]Of course I admit it.[[/quote]

So, you just said that God is [b]not[/b] the author of sin, now you say that God is the author of sin. Make up your mind already!

Edited November 5, 2004 by Justified Saint