Compendium of Church's Social Doctrine

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
10/28 - Sts. Simon and Jude

I just picked up today a copy of the new book put out by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace entitled [i]A Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church[/i]. Man, you gotta get this and read it - it'll change the world if we could act on it.

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

What does it speak of?

Please enlighten me with some tasty morsul's...

Totus Tuus,
Andy

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Fiat_Voluntas_Tua' date='28 October 2004 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1098978725' post='399032']
What does it speak of?

Please enlighten me with some tasty morsul's...

Totus Tuus,
Andy
[/quote]

It basically lays out what orthodoxy demands of the political sphere. Hint: it is not the U.S. Republican Party. Actually, it provides the framework for something [i]similar [/i]to democratic socialism, wherein public options are available for the poor while a free market and private property is retained. Three key words for the entire text: [b]solidarity, subsidiarity, and dignity[/b].

Pretty much the best of all political sides with none of the morally evil stuff. It is frustrating to read because it points to what I think is a perfectly viable civilization / government that is not a fantastic utopia but you still know it won't happen. It has stuff that will make both liberals and conservatives happy which means both liberals and conservatives will hate it.

I marvel at how few of otherwise devout Catholics have read it. The Catechism lays out what the faith is and the CSDCC lays out what that faith naturally results in if applied to the political sphere. Because of this, I think that the CSDCC may actually be a more fruitful tool for evangelism than the Catechism for today's nonbelievers. It reveals what the world would look like if governments were run according to Catholic principles.

[Nihil Obstat]

Why~~~?

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 May 2010 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1273757006' post='2109866']
Why~~~?
[/quote]


Why what?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='13 May 2010 - 08:25 AM' timestamp='1273757128' post='2109868']
Why what?
[/quote]
Why would you bump a six year old thread?

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 May 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1273757158' post='2109870']
Why would you bump a six year old thread?
[/quote]

I was curious if there had ever been threads on the CSDCC and this was the only one I found. Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would just pick up on one.

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm watching you.

[Ziggamafu]

I see you too. But not in the fruity Avatar way.

[CatherineM]

This was one of my texts last semester.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='13 May 2010 - 07:21 AM' timestamp='1273756872' post='2109864']
It basically lays out what orthodoxy demands of the political sphere. Hint: it is not the U.S. Republican Party. Actually, it provides the framework for something [i]similar [/i]to democratic socialism, wherein public options are available for the poor while a free market and private property is retained. Three key words for the entire text: [b]solidarity, subsidiarity, and dignity[/b].

Pretty much the best of all political sides with none of the morally evil stuff. It is frustrating to read because it points to what I think is a perfectly viable civilization / government that is not a fantastic utopia but you still know it won't happen. It has stuff that will make both liberals and conservatives happy which means both liberals and conservatives will hate it.

I marvel at how few of otherwise devout Catholics have read it. The Catechism lays out what the faith is and the CSDCC lays out what that faith naturally results in if applied to the political sphere. Because of this, I think that the CSDCC may actually be a more fruitful tool for evangelism than the Catechism for today's nonbelievers. It reveals what the world would look like if governments were run according to Catholic principles.
[/quote]
Are you saying that the "public option" equals "state assistance"? The state has a very limited role in society, and it is vitally important that Catholics remember that, since no one else at the present time does.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Apotheoun

[morostheos]

I agree that this book is an excellent resource!!

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

Funny you should reply to my comment over 6 years ago, today...because I get on here about once a year or so now, and just HAPPENED to check this thread, and saw I commented on it in 2004. I still haven't read it, but I have recently read [i]Rerum Navarum[/i] again about a month ago, and that document takes the cake for social justice.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='13 May 2010 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1273756872' post='2109864']
It basically lays out what orthodoxy demands of the political sphere. Hint: it is not the U.S. Republican Party. Actually, it provides the framework for something [i]similar [/i]to democratic socialism, wherein public options are available for the poor while a free market and private property is retained. Three key words for the entire text: [b]solidarity, subsidiarity, and dignity[/b].

Pretty much the best of all political sides with none of the morally evil stuff. It is frustrating to read because it points to what I think is a perfectly viable civilization / government that is not a fantastic utopia but you still know it won't happen. It has stuff that will make both liberals and conservatives happy which means both liberals and conservatives will hate it.

I marvel at how few of otherwise devout Catholics have read it. The Catechism lays out what the faith is and the CSDCC lays out what that faith naturally results in if applied to the political sphere. Because of this, I think that the CSDCC may actually be a more fruitful tool for evangelism than the Catechism for today's nonbelievers. It reveals what the world would look like if governments were run according to Catholic principles.
[/quote]

I love the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, but I don't see it as democratic socialist in the slightest. Actually, I find it to be a mixture of the principles of the tea party (subsidiarity, private property, family rights, parental rights, education, freedom of belief), human rights (which doesn't really belong to any single party or group), and the non-governmental grassroots movements like Solidarity.

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

Raphael...long time no chat. I just sent you a message [i]via [/i]your blog. I haven't read it, but I think that (after reading Rerum Novarum) there are a few features of the Catholic Social teaching that can be closely related with what is associated with Socialism...namely that we are morally obligated to help people. If that means you are a socialist, then I think the tenants of socialism are too broad! But, regardless, there are many aspects of the Church's social teaching that your fiscally conservative Republican would tag as Socialistic. Perhaps that is what Zig is getting at?

[tinytherese]

There's also the book Render onto Caesar.

[Didymus]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='13 May 2010 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1273756872' post='2109864']
It basically lays out what orthodoxy demands of the political sphere. Hint: it is not the U.S. Republican Party. Actually, it provides the framework for something [i]similar [/i]to democratic socialism, wherein public options are available for the poor while a free market and private property is retained. Three key words for the entire text: [b]solidarity, subsidiarity, and dignity[/b].

Pretty much the best of all political sides with none of the morally evil stuff. It is frustrating to read because it points to what I think is a perfectly viable civilization / government that is not a fantastic utopia but you still know it won't happen. It has stuff that will make both liberals and conservatives happy which means both liberals and conservatives will hate it.

I marvel at how few of otherwise devout Catholics have read it. The Catechism lays out what the faith is and the CSDCC lays out what that faith naturally results in if applied to the political sphere. Because of this, I think that the CSDCC may actually be a more fruitful tool for evangelism than the Catechism for today's nonbelievers. It reveals what the world would look like if governments were run according to Catholic principles.
[/quote]

It's nothing similar to Democratic Socialism. Democratic socialism places property at the dangerous whim of the state (at best it places it at the whim of the majority) The human person's ability to work and provide for their family and community as they will is taken away. This is why true socialism, even "democratic socialism," is a true affront to human dignity.

And the Compendium doesn't just look at the role of government. It summarizes a social thought. This includes individuals, families, intermediary institutions, etc.

Instead of seeing it as the best of all political sides, I have found that it is best to view Catholic Social Teaching in the framework that the Popes have when deliberating on it in the various social encyclicals - the social teaching of the Church transcends the ideology of the right and the left, and therefore transcends the "spectrum" of politics that we have been presented by the world.

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='13 May 2010 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1273770059' post='2109962']
Are you saying that the "public option" equals "state assistance"? The state has a very limited role in society, and it is vitally important that Catholics remember that, since no one else at the present time does.
[/quote]

No, the Church doesn't teach that. This is a misconception of subsidiarity. Government ought not be "limited" or "decentralized" but rather appropriate to the role it must play depending on the issue. I think most would agree that in the U.S., subsidiarity calls for a limiting of the Federal Govt in many areas, but in general it is not a call for arbitrary decentralization. Subsidiarity also refers to non-governmental institutions as well, such as corporations and unions, which have also grown in recent years to a size most detrimental to the common good.

[Didymus]

[quote name='Fiat_Voluntas_Tua' date='13 May 2010 - 09:24 PM' timestamp='1273800294' post='2110249']
Raphael...long time no chat. I just sent you a message [i]via [/i]your blog. I haven't read it, but I think that (after reading Rerum Novarum) there are a few features of the Catholic Social teaching that can be closely related with what is associated with Socialism...namely that we are morally obligated to help people. If that means you are a socialist, then I think the tenants of socialism are too broad! But, regardless, there are many aspects of the Church's social teaching that your fiscally conservative Republican would tag as Socialistic. Perhaps that is what Zig is getting at?
[/quote]

That may make some sense, but we shouldn't worry about what those on the right wing define as socialist, when the Church has done so well over the years in defining for us, the concerns She has with socialism and the materialism of liberal ideology.

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Didymus' date='14 May 2010 - 04:35 PM' timestamp='1273869337' post='2110722']
That may make some sense, but we shouldn't worry about what those on the right wing define as socialist, when the Church has done so well over the years in defining for us, the concerns She has with socialism and the materialism of liberal ideology.
[/quote]

The Church has outright condemned all forms of socialism commonly defined. I have to be the first one to say that I know extremely little about politics and political systems. Nevertheless, I've been told (literally, my impressions come from a philosophy lecture) that democratic socialism is not really socialism at all; that it maintains a free market and a true right to private property and personal advancement. So my foggy impression is that democratic socialism would look something similar to Norway. I don't know. Based on these impressions, my reading of the CSDCC (and social doctrine encyclicals) gives me a perception of something similar to democratic socialism. Something similar to it. I don't see how anybody could have read the whole text and not seen an urge toward State assistance to the poor in a variety of areas. My impressions of democratic socialism caused me to see at least some similarity between it and the CSDCC (despite the blanket condemnation on all forms of socialism). Maybe I don't understand what democratic socialism is, however.

[Aloysius]

[quote]No, the Church doesn't teach that. This is a misconception of subsidiarity. Government ought not be "limited" or "decentralized" but rather appropriate to the role it must play depending on the issue. I think most would agree that in the U.S., subsidiarity calls for a limiting of the Federal Govt in many areas, but in general it is not a call for arbitrary decentralization.[/quote]



decentralization, but not arbitrary decentralization. to help the poor in a city, you need a city government. to keep peace among nations (... gets prepared to run away from Jack van Impe who will be labeling me the antiChrist...) you need a global government, or at least a "a true world political authority" (Caritas in Veritate). yes, something with more teeth than the UN that can actually restrain nations from waging war.

[quote] Subsidiarity also refers to non-governmental institutions as well, such as corporations and unions, which have also grown in recent years to a size most detrimental to the common good.[/quote]

!!exactly!!

private sector subsidiarity is way too neglected a subject for people who've caught on to the idea of subsidiarity as if it were the Church's endorsement of Reaganomics.

btw, since this is a thread from six years ago, does that mean myself from six years ago can see me? because if so, i'm sure he's currently preparing a scathing rebuttal... six years of reading the Church's social teachings have changed me quite a lot; I started out seeing them as a mere confirmation of what I already thought and always tried to quote them to my advantage; but in the end they got the better of me..

Edited May 15, 2010 by Aloysius