Good Friday Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 Basing an arguement on scriptures that are rejected by all Christians is completely rediculous. As we can see in the Gospel, Mary was not an Apostle and would not have been Jesus' favorite. We don't know who Jesus' favorite was. More than likely, Jesus did not have a favorite, since I doubt that God plays favorites. But to assume that Mary Magdalene was not his favorite because she wasn't an Apostle is ridiculous. Are we to assume that Jesus favored the Apostles over Mary? St. Philomena is said to be very much favored by Jesus. Is she an Apostle? The ministry of Apostle does not necessarily make them more favored, it gives them a different ministry. There have been Popes who have been successors to the Apostles who have done despicable things. Would it be accurate to say that Jesus would have favored them above Mary Magdalene or any saint? This is not to say that Mary Magdalene was his favorite. As I said, I doubt that God played favorites. But the point is that we can't assume that simply because she wasn't an Apostle she wasn't favored. Jesus must have favored her in some way, she was the first to see him risen and the first to proclaim him risen. The Church has traditionally called her apostola apostolorum -- apostle to the Apostles. So while I don't know that as drastic an approach as the Gnostics have taken should be taken, I don't think Mary Magdalene should be dismissed either.
mulls Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 this is part of the plot of the Da Vinci Code. Mary Magdalene was inDouche loved most by Jesus, since they were actually married. and in Da Vinci's portrait of the Last Supper, it is Mary Magdalene who is seated next to Jesus on his left. its a cool book, i hope people don't get mislead by it.
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 When John and James' mother asked Jesus to place her two sons in a high position, and the other ten apostles "became indignant about it" (Matthew 20:24), The Lord's response was - "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you." No Apostle was favoured or had authority over another.
Dave Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 No Apostle was favoured or had authority over another. Peter did! But he had authority in the way that all popes have authority -- he served the people of God by his teaching authority. He didn't lord his authority over anyone.
ironmonk Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 Apostle, or no apostle... She was the first to spread the Good News. People should think about what she did, reflect on her role in this Glorious Mystery... Wouldn't you revere the woman who told us the Messiah lives? No one said anything bad about her... in fact quite the opposite. The point being she was NOT sent to the world to teach about Christ. The Holy Spirit desended on the 12 and Mother Mary... She was not an Apostle in the sense of the 12 Apostles. That is what some people appear to be saying... I didn't see the DC show, but that's the impression I got from the original post. Your servent in Christ, ironmonk
ironmonk Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 this is part of the plot of the Da Vinci Code. Mary Magdalene was inDouche loved most by Jesus, since they were actually married. and in Da Vinci's portrait of the Last Supper, it is Mary Magdalene who is seated next to Jesus on his left. its a cool book, i hope people don't get mislead by it. WHAT?! Jesus was not married to Mary Magdalene. There is evidence that appears that He loved her most, for the fact that He appeared to her first. I had heard that she was His fav... but now, after searching the ECF and the Bible, I can't remember where I read it... so it's speculation... but logical because she was first. God Bless, ironmonk
ironmonk Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 When John and James' mother asked Jesus to place her two sons in a high position, and the other ten apostles "became indignant about it" (Matthew 20:24), The Lord's response was - "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you." No Apostle was favoured or had authority over another. Please read St. Matt 16:18-19, St. John 21:15-19, and Acts 20:30. Note, that Peter was the first Pope and the Catholic Church was the first Christian faith. How can a man change what Christ has built and be correct? Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk
Norseman82 Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 I catch some similar shows on the History Channel, it is interesting to see what the historical contexts are, but I don't swallow it hook, line, and sinker because when they want to interview "clergy", who do they choose? Dominic Croissan (sp?), who took part in that "Jesus seminar" that concluded that Jesus only rose from the dead in the minds of the apostles.
FreeSoul Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 "The point being she was NOT sent to the world to teach about Christ. The Holy Spirit desended on the 12 and Mother Mary..." Everyone on this world was sent to teach about Christ. Are you saying that it wouldn't have made a difference if she saw the stone rolled away?
Good Friday Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 Ironmonk, have you lost your mind? 1) Mary Magdalene brought the Gospel to Gaul, along with her brother Lazarus and her sister Martha. This is the tradition of your own church. 2) Acts 1:14 says that the Apostles were with Mary, "some women," and the brothers of the Lord. Acts 2:1 tells us that they were all in one place together, and Acts 2:4 tells us that they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. So it was not just the Twelve and Mary that the Holy Spirit descended on.
Anna Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 St. Mary Magdalene, while not an apostle, obviously played an important role in Early Christianity. She may have been the first person who experienced a real, life altering conversion through Christ's grace. It's no surprise why she remained so faithful to Him, even unto the grave! Yes, beyond even the Cross, where she stood, adoring her Suffering Lord, her love and devotion didn't stop there...she was first to reach His tomb and find it empty. It seems to me that, in that day when many women were silent, St. Mary Magdalene's Faith was expressed boldly and demonstratively. Also, she seems to have been an almost constant companion of Our Lady. Sad that in today's society, some folks feel they must attach some sexual implication to St. Mary Magdalene's True and Pure Love for her Savior. But hey, it sells more books and movies this way, eh?
Anna Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 (edited) But, oh, yes, she would have been among the 120 or so disciples at Pentecost! Incidentally, I know of a priest/prominant speaker/author who says horrible things about intimacy between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Friends of mine have corresponded with him and his superiors, with bishops in dioceses where he speaks and sells his books, etc...but most of all, they pray HARD for his conversion. Edited October 5, 2003 by Anna
BLAZEr Posted October 6, 2003 Posted October 6, 2003 Ironmonk, have you lost your mind? 1) Mary Magdalene brought the Gospel to Gaul, along with her brother Lazarus and her sister Martha. This is the tradition of your own church. Oh, where do begin. The Church doesn't teach that Mary Magdalene took the Gospel to Gaul, but there are relics in southern france that are venerated as her own. We're not sure if they are really her. That's tradition with a small "t" . . . 2) Acts 1:14 says that the Apostles were with Mary, "some women," and the brothers of the Lord. Acts 2:1 tells us that they were all in one place together, and Acts 2:4 tells us that they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. So it was not just the Twelve and Mary that the Holy Spirit descended on.The WHOLE CHURCH gets the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, not just the Apostles. The thing is, though, that we each get the Holy Spirt and it is manifest according to our role in the Church . .. the preacher and the hermit do not express the HS in the same way. And for Trooper When John and James' mother asked Jesus to place her two sons in a high position, and the other ten apostles "became indignant about it" (Matthew 20:24), The Lord's response was - "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you." No Apostle was favoured or had authority over another. I don't read in there that Jesus didn't give authority to any apostle over any other. In fact, all I read is that Jesus is telling them that they want authority for the wrong reasons. Since you and both read it and have different views on it, who's right? If you have no authority to appeal to other than yourself . . . what do you do when two people disagree? Start your own Church? (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted October 6, 2003 Posted October 6, 2003 (edited) Please read St. Matt 16:18-19, St. John 21:15-19, and Acts 20:30. Note, that Peter was the first Pope and the Catholic Church was the first Christian faith. How can a man change what Christ has built and be correct? Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Matthew 16:17-20 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. quite the smart student, always eager to learn and query. Notice he was speaking to all disciples..... -------------------------------- John 21:15-19 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. 19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. once again no sign of favouring, once again Peter is eager to learn and be used as a model. -------------------------------- Acts 20:30 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Obviously your using a warning by Paul as an attack directed at me, I do not come to seize, kill and destroy. I come here to learn, love, challenge and be challenged..... Edited October 6, 2003 by Trooper4DaHolyG
Dave Posted October 6, 2003 Posted October 6, 2003 Matthew 16:17-20 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. quite the smart student, always eager to learn and query. Notice he was speaking to all disciples..... No, he was speaking to Peter first, and only afterward did he address all the disciples. John 21:15-19 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. 19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. once again no sign of favouring, once again Peter is eager to learn and be used as a model. No, Jesus is giving Peter a special mission. Why didn't he say what He did to the other disciples? Why didn't he gather them together and get all their responses? Acts 20:30 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Obviously your using a warning by Paul as an attack directed at me, I do not come to seize, kill and destroy. I come here to learn, love, challenge and be challenged..... No, you came here to try and expose the "errors" of Catholicism and tell us we're wrong. If you came to learn, you'd be asking questions of us, not attempting to prove us wrong.
cmotherofpirl Posted October 6, 2003 Posted October 6, 2003 i have asked many questions! :D Yes you have, but you have been quite incapable of answering any.
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