Engaging in

[the lumberjack]

FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS MOTHER AND FATHER AND CLEAVE TO HIS [font="Impact"][color=red]WIFE[/color][/font]....

not his "partner" or husband or gay boyfriend....one man, one woman.

Tab A, Slot B...thats the ONLY way it works, right?

RIGHT.

[jasJis]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Nov 4 2004, 04:39 PM'] I'm saying that it might be natural since it's genetic, and as such, we should allow it. [/quote]
Then what about other genetic characteristics that pre-dispose people to drink too much, eat too much, be depressed, have a short temper, etc. We all know that certain personality traits are genetic in origin. Who we are is a complex combination of genetics, the forming effects of environment, and the application of our own will. This is not disputed my any reasonable scientists. It is often argued the effects or genetics or environment or strength of will. The Church is saying that it is possible that genetics could cause the trait for homosexual tendencies, but with love, it says that society should foster and encourage an environment that turns away from physical manifestation, and that with prayer and God's grace, those people should strive to control their will to avoid the sin of homosexual acts.

This is not different then people who are gentically predisposed to alcoholism, gambling addiction, etc., etc. If society does not recognize homosexuality as basically disordered, it will create an environment that overwhelms the average person's ability to control their will. Just as an 'over-sexed' society makes it very difficult for today's teens to control themselves in a chaste manner because they are constantly bombarded with 'everyone's doing it', 'it's natural', etc., etc. Why even have a marriage? Why not just have random sex with whover we want with no commitments? There's lot's of examples in nature of that. That's natural, isn't it? Or is it? Just because what's gravy for the goose is sauce for the gander doesn't make it a marinade for the beef.

[dUSt]

If there is a gay gene then their must also be a gene that makes me prefer black women over white women. It must have nothing to do with the fact that I grew up watching Lisa on Saved By the Bell.

[cmotherofpirl]

Pedophiles are claiming their problem is gene-related now too.

[dUSt]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 4 2004, 08:09 PM'] Pedophiles are claiming their problem is gene-related now too. [/quote]
Hmmm, well then that would make it natural, so therefore we should allow it.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Nov 4 2004, 07:33 PM'] It must have nothing to do with the fact that I grew up watching Lisa on Saved By the Bell. [/quote]
man, she was too high maintenance for my tastes.
So was Jessie.

[marielapin]

Dairygrl,

The reason we say that it is impossible for the gay gene to exist is due to the rule of social Darwinism, which is:

a theory in sociology that individuals or groups achieve advantage over others as the result of genetic or biological superiority

aka survival of the fittest.

This means that a gene that is physiologically inferior is less likely to be passed on because of premature death due to weakness or sickness, or inability to spread their genes.

This can be easily applied to homosexuality.

If there were a gene for homosexuality, how would it be passed on? If homosexuals do not procreate, they cannot spread their genes and therefore not produce homosexual offspring.

Even if the "gene" were a mutation, the percentage of people who had it would not be anywhere near as high as the percentage claiming themselves to be gay, it would be less than a tenth of a percent, even if that.

[CreepyCrawler]

good point.

[BLAZEr]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Nov 2 2004, 03:37 PM'] The Catholic Church cannot prove that procreative is a necessary condition without faith. (this said perhaps the notion that change is possible is becoming less and less likely) [/quote]
That's just absurd. Any person with a brain can look at sexual intercourse and it's role in human life and recognize that it has a necessary and natural pro-creative component. To frustrate the pro-createive component you need, by necessity, an unnatural act.

[BLAZEr]

Is it possible that it IS genetic . . . and that it is a genetic abnormality, and aberration.

For instance, my cousin has a genetic abnormality that causes his skin to fall off. Should he not be treated for this? I mean, it's genetic so it must be NATURAL right?


Pshaw! Why is that when it comes to the penis . . . everyone starts thinking all screwed up . . . call it the sexual distortion.

[hyperdulia again]

Let's leave aside the rather odd argument that the "gay gene" would not get passed along (most gay men throughout history have married women and most lesbians have married men) and that GLBT activists have pumped our culture full of pro-gay propoganda. There have been cultures that viewed homosexuality as inborn the native Americans, Polynesians, and Slavs in there pre-Christian days viewed it as a sign of being marked by the gods for some special purpose/as carrying magical powers.

But all of this is beside the point the Church does not require of her GLBT children any particular view of the origins of their sexual inclinations. People can have their opinions, but they cannot make dogmatic statements and bind others into believing them. Church teaching is that whatever the origin of homosexuality, non-procreative sexual intercourse is a sin.

Edited November 8, 2004 by hyperdulia again

[hyperdulia again]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Nov 4 2004, 04:45 PM']
Tab A, Slot B...thats the ONLY way it works, right?

RIGHT. [/quote]
The vulgarity of the above makes me blush. And I am not a generally blushable person.

[Socrates]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Nov 8 2004, 01:22 PM'] The vulgarity of the above makes me blush. And I am not a generally blushable person. [/quote]
May be vulgar but it gets straight (no pun intended) to the point of the argument, unlike all this nonsense the pro-gay people say to prance around the issue.

Sodomy is un-natural and unhealthy.

Sexual intercourse (between man and woman) can create new human life.
Sodomy breeds only disease, filth, and misery, and death.
The only life it increases is bacterial life.
The homos have rebelled against nature, and nature has paid them back.

And since there is zero actual evidence for a "gay gene," it is pointless and silly to discuss this mythical entity. - "The gay gene made me do it!"

"The theft gene made me do it!"
"The lying gene made me do it!"
"The murder gene made me do it!"
"The child-abuse gene made me do it!"

[azaelia]

If you only knew the terrible health risks homosexuals face, you'd probably rethink this argument. Anything that causes such pain, damage and disease cannot be a healthy lifestyle.

And if sex isn't procreative, then what is it for? God didn't create us as selfish beings. We are called to be selfless and self-giving. The sex act was not made for merely our pleasure or as a unitive act alone. Unity is a part of the sex act, but without the preocreative aspect sex is reduced to a selfish act used for only the pleasure of the persons involved. Without the pro-creative aspect, there is no acceptance of responsibility. No "I love you so much that I want to have children with you." Merely, "I love you so much that I want to give you pleasure, but not children."

I'm sorry if that was incoherent.

[hyperdulia again]

Azaelia, I hope you don't think my post was an apologia pro homosexuality. It wasn't. I just think it's of no consequence whether or not homosexuality is genetic.

[God Conquers]

[quote name='socrates']Sexual intercourse (between man and woman) can create new human life.
Sodomy breeds only disease, filth, and misery, and death.
The only life it increases is bacterial life.
The homos have rebelled against nature, and nature has paid them back.[/quote]

Whoa! Gadfly of Phatmass.

Hold back on the rhetoric a little bit here... we're called to love sinners (and the Pope has explicitly in recent days called for charity to homosexuals) and this definately does not cut it.

Hyper is right... whether a moral action is attributed to genetics means little, save maybe some mitigation of sin as in the case of alcoholics, and does not seek to resolve the root of the moral dilemma.

[azaelia]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Nov 9 2004, 01:04 PM'] Azaelia, I hope you don't think my post was an apologia pro homosexuality.  It wasn't.  I just think it's of no consequence whether or not homosexuality is genetic. [/quote]
I wasn't referring to you. I was referring more to diarygirl than anyone, although my rant was more directed to the world at large.

[Socrates]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Nov 9 2004, 01:05 PM'] [quote name='socrates']Sexual intercourse (between man and woman) can create new human life.
Sodomy breeds only disease, filth, and misery, and death.
The only life it increases is bacterial life.
The homos have rebelled against nature, and nature has paid them back.[/quote]

Whoa! Gadfly of Phatmass.

Hold back on the rhetoric a little bit here... we're called to love sinners (and the Pope has explicitly in recent days called for charity to homosexuals) and this definately does not cut it.

Hyper is right... whether a moral action is attributed to genetics means little, save maybe some mitigation of sin as in the case of alcoholics, and does not seek to resolve the root of the moral dilemma. [/quote]
My post is hating the sin, not the sinner!

If we had true charity for people engaged in a sodomite "lifestyle" we would do all we could to keep them from these degrading, filthy, and unhealthy practices, with all the misery (both physical and spiritual) they bring to those involved.

Everybody is so PC now. Homosexuality is now America's great sacred cow. Sodomites can obscenely mock and attack Catholics, the Church and Christ Himself all they like, but no one can say anything at all negative about the sin of homosexuality without being labeled a bigot and perhaps sent away to sensitivity camp!

It's time to stop mollycoddling these people and speak the truth.
They attack our religion and values, and it's time to fight back!

If the other side keeps winning, and we keep backing down, it will soon be illegal for us to profess our faith in public! It's already happening in Canada, Holland, and Sweden.

Wake up, people!

[God Conquers]

Yo, I was talking about where you said "homos", which is clearly a disparaging remark.

And hating the sin also means loving the sinner at the same time....

There is a difference between saying "Sodomy is bad and will hurt you" and saying "Sodomites are dirty filthy, breed bacteria and are miserable"

[Socrates]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 9 2004, 12:04 AM'] Sodomy breeds only disease, filth, and misery, and death.
The only life it increases is bacterial life.
[/quote]
Please note, I said "sodomy" (the sin of Sodom).