D0RK4JP2 Posted November 13, 2004 Posted November 13, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 13 2004, 05:36 PM'] As a side note of trivia, since we brought up the Latin words of Consecration, the term "Hocus Pocus" is a play on the words "HOC EST ENIM CORPUS MEUM" and should be avoided, even for literary purposes, because it was meant by some anti-Catholics as a mockery of what seemed to them to be superstition. [/quote] Hence we shall avoid the song by HOCUS POCUS called 'Here's Johnny' - a classic techno song. JMJ.
popestpiusx Posted November 13, 2004 Posted November 13, 2004 [quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Nov 13 2004, 02:13 AM'] If the priest's gestures are accidentals and not rubric (?), then during the Latin Mass, if the priest doesn't do all the motions underlined in the Tridentine Rite (ex: genuflect, elevate, genuflect) after the Consecration does anything become invalid? Are these rubric? [/quote] The priests gestures are mandated by the rubrics (found in red in the Missale Romanum, as the name would seem to imply). Ignoring the rubrics for no reason would be illicit. Being physically incapable of carrying them out would be an entirely different matter. In either case the gestures do not affect the validity of te sacrament. I'll not go into their importance right now, unless you would like to know why they are there (if so, just ask). By the way, the consecration of the Host takes place with the words "THis is My Body, This is My Blood. That question has been settled by Rome. I'll have to find the source though.
M.SIGGA Posted November 13, 2004 Author Posted November 13, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 13 2004, 07:17 AM'] I'll not go into their importance right now, unless you would like to know why they are there (if so, just ask). [/quote] please... and thanks for the answer. do you also know the meaning of the gesture when the priest bows and sort of sways at the same time when the Mass of the Catechumens first starts, I believe it is when everyone first kneels once the bell rings? Thanks.
homeschoolmom Posted November 13, 2004 Posted November 13, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 13 2004, 01:36 AM'] As a side note of trivia, since we brought up the Latin words of Consecration, the term "Hocus Pocus" is a play on the words "HOC EST ENIM CORPUS MEUM" and should be avoided, even for literary purposes, because it was meant by some anti-Catholics as a mockery of what seemed to them to be superstition. [/quote] I was gonna say that!!
CatholicCrusader Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 6 2004, 11:10 PM'] This is an old post from a theologian and author featured on EWTN so I'll still with what he says. [/quote] Modern theologian from EWTN takes precedence over St. Thomas Aquinas?! Now that is something new... I know people have really been disparaging St. Thomas (especially since c. 1960), but this, I think, is an all-time low... I really don't believe it... ETWN modern theologian > St. Thomas Aquinas, UNIVERSAL DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 16 2004, 03:56 AM'] Modern theologian from EWTN takes precedence over St. Thomas Aquinas?! Now that is something new... I know people have really been disparaging St. Thomas (especially since c. 1960), but this, I think, is an all-time low... I really don't believe it... ETWN modern theologian > St. Thomas Aquinas, UNIVERSAL DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH [/quote] Well, he himself admitted that it was mere straw... I really don't know what we're debating...haven't been following this thread...
CatholicCrusader Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Nov 13 2004, 09:38 AM'] please... and thanks for the answer. do you also know the meaning of the gesture when the priest bows and sort of sways at the same time when the Mass of the Catechumens first starts, I believe it is when everyone first kneels once the bell rings? Thanks. [/quote] What he is doing is reciting the Confiteor. He says it first, then the Sacred Ministers (Deacon and Subdeacon at a Solemn Mass, altar boy(s) at a Sung or Low Mass). He should only "sway" (turn slightly to his right then to his left) at a Solemn Mass. He turns when he says the words "et vobis fratres" (and you brothers) first to the Deacon and then to the Subdeacon. You will notice also throughout all the Mass everything is done in proper order, a hierarchy: first Priest, then Deacon, then Subdeacon, then Acolytes. He also turns slightly toward the Decon and Subdeacon at the end part of the Confiteor at the words "et vos fratres" (and you brothers). I'll let PSPX comment on the other rubrics, as he asked.
CatholicCrusader Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 16 2004, 04:04 AM'] Well, he himself admitted that it was mere straw... [/quote] Don't you just hate when people try to use that to disparage what he wrote and say it's meaningless because of that.... We are debating which words are necessary for the Consecration of the wine.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 16 2004, 04:06 AM'] Don't you just hate when people try to use that to disparage what he wrote and say it's meaningless because of that.... We are debating which words are necessary for the Consecration of the wine. [/quote] Well, I was just kidding...
CatholicCrusader Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 16 2004, 04:08 AM'] Well, I was just kidding... [/quote] Oh I know! I was agreeing with you in how ridiculous it is when people say that. I assumed that was the joke.
cmotherofpirl Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 16 2004, 04:56 AM'] Modern theologian from EWTN takes precedence over St. Thomas Aquinas?! Now that is something new... I know people have really been disparaging St. Thomas (especially since c. 1960), but this, I think, is an all-time low... I really don't believe it... ETWN modern theologian > St. Thomas Aquinas, UNIVERSAL DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH [/quote] Modern? he has forgotten more about the Church Fathers than you will ever know.... and quotes them and Aquinas at the drop of a hat. St Thomas would be the first to admit he was not infallible, can you?
homeschoolmom Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 16 2004, 09:20 AM'] St Thomas would be the first to admit he was not infallible, can you? [/quote]
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