The Rapture

[goldenchild17]

Someone brought this up to me while we were chatting. I told him I would email him today sometime. I got some stuff from Scripture Catholic, but I kind of need anything ya'll can give me on why the rapture isn't Biblical. Thanks. And what's up with the ECF's on the Rapture? I mean, why did a good number of them accept it?

[StColette]

Well, there is some type of rapture, that's why the ECF's supported it, but it depends upon what kind of rapture you're talking about. I know many different Protestant churches have many different ideas about what the Rapture is etc.

[StColette]

Try this:

Premillennialists often give much attention to the doctrine of the rapture. According to this doctrine, when Christ returns, all of the elect who have died will be raised and transformed into a glorious state, along with the living elect, and then be caught up to be with Christ. The key text referring to the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, which states, "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."

Premillennialists hold, as do virtually all Christians (except certain postmillennialists), that the Second Coming will be preceded by a time of great trouble and persecution of God’s people (2 Thess. 2:1–4). This period is often called the tribulation. Until the nineteenth century, all Christians agreed that the rapture—though it was not called that at the time—would occur immediately before the Second Coming, at the close of the period of persecution. This position is today called the "post-tribulational" view because it says the rapture will come after the tribulation.

But in the 1800s, some began to claim that the rapture would occur before the period of persecution. This position, now known as the "pre-tribulational" view, also was embraced by John Nelson Darby, an early leader of a Fundamentalist movement that became known as Dispensationalism. Darby’s pre-tribulational view of the rapture was then picked up by a man named C.I. Scofield, who taught the view in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible, which was widely distributed in England and America. Many Protestants who read the Scofield Reference Bible uncritically accepted what its footnotes said and adopted the pre-tribulational view, even though no Christian had heard of it in the previous 1800 years of Church history.

Eventually, a third position developed, known as the "mid-tribulational" view, which claims that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. Finally, a fourth view developed that claims that there will not be a single rapture where all believers are gathered to Christ, but that there will be a series of mini-raptures that occur at different times with respect to the tribulation.

This confusion has caused the movement to split into bitterly opposed camps.

The problem with all of the positions (except the historic, post-tribulational view, which was accepted by all Christians, including non-premillennialists) is that they split the Second Coming into different events. In the case of the pre-trib view, Christ is thought to have three comings—one when he was born in Bethlehem, one when he returns for the rapture at the tribulation’s beginning, and one at tribulation’s end, when he establishes the millennium. This three-comings view is foreign to Scripture.

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, who wrote: "Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it" (The Word of Truth, 556–7).

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/rapture.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/rapture.asp[/url]

[goldenchild17]

I think where he's going with this is a rapture where the "elect" are taken up to heaven. And then the rest of us are left on earth for a period of suffering or something like that. I do believe in a rapture but I didn't think it was to be apart from the 2nd coming... I think that's what I need help defending,(if I was not too confusing)

[StColette]

Are Catholics into the Rapture?

I've been asked about the Catholic view on the Rapture. I guess we would have to ask “which rapture?” To my understanding, there are 3 major theories on the Rapture found in Evangelical circles. 1) Pre-Tribulation rapture 2) Mid-Tribulation Rapture 3) Post-Tribulation Rapture. There are also many variations on each of these theories and much debate among Protestant theologians. What many Evangelicals don't know is that the Pre-Tribulation, and Mid-Tribulation theories are less than 175 years old. (more on that below)

Catholics certainly believe that “we will be caught up in the air” (1 Thess 4:17) when the trumpet sounds. So Catholics do believe in the “Rapture” if one is talking about the third option - Post Tribulation Rapture (although they understand the 1000 years to mean “a long time” Rev. 20:2-3; 7). The term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Catholic Latin Vulgate that was written in 390 A.D. It comes from 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).

Catholics find no solid scriptural evidence that there will be a two or three-stage return of Christ or that Jesus will come more than one more time. Nor do Catholics see any Biblical evidence as to why Christians should be “spared” the tribulation of the evil one. The Catholic Church feels that all Biblical evidence points to the contrary - that Christians will undergo great persecutions and tribulation. Catholics believe that history bears witness that the Church thrives under persecution.

Perhaps we will win many converts to Christianity during the tribulation. Most humans (including me) are more disposed to a conversion of heart when things are bad. Nothing creates an open mind and opens someone to a personal relationship with Christ more than suffering. During the tribulation people will be looking for answers. They will be “ripe” for conversion. This is the only value of the tribulation.

If all the “good Christians” are taken out of the world during the tribulation, who will be left on earth to convert the poor souls who are looking for answers during that time? Would Jesus leave humans on earth for the devil to ravage but remove all the Christians who can convert them? This would prevent the spreading of the Gospel during that time. If he did that he would be condemning these non-Christians before the Judgment day. (Mat 11:22)

John Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren, put forth the Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory around 1830 after traveling to northern Scotland to meet with Margaret McDonald, a woman in who had a “vision” during a serious illness that convinced her Christ would come in two stages. (This was near the time Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon because of a “vision”) Prior to that, no theologian or denomination had ever suggested a “two stage” coming of Christ. Not Martin Luther, not Wycliff, not thousands of good Christians nor had the early church fathers ever suggested Christ would come again in two stages.

The Pre-Tribulation theory is currently enjoying tremendous popularity among some Evangelicals due to the "Left Behind" series of books and movies. The theory is also a common belief among those who believe in the “prosperity” gospel (that says if we have enough faith we’ll be prosperous like Jabez.) These two theories suggest that faithful Christians will not undergo persecutions or suffering. Catholics feel that there is a place for suffering and that there is much biblical evidence that persecution and suffering have a solid place in the Kingdom and in the evangelization of the unfaithful. We believe there will be only one more return of Christ and on that day the faithful Christians will be caught up in the air.

We Catholics also know how to have fun and party in the Lord! Everything has a place.

_________________________________________________________

Below are some Scripture passages about only one more return from Christ and also some passages that defuse the literal interpretation of the 1000 years. found on [url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/"]http://www.scripturecatholic.com/[/url]

1 Thess. 4:17 - Paul writes that "we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Many Protestants call this experience the "rapture" (even though the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible). This theory says that Christ will take the faithful up to heaven before the final coming.

John 14:3; 1 Cor. 15:52 - these are other passages that Protestants use to support the rapture experience. The problem with the rapture theory is that is assumes three comings of Christ. This is contrary to Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.

Heb. 9:24 - instead, the Scriptures are clear that "Christ will appear only a second time, when he comes in glory to save us." See also Rev. 19:11-16. The Scriptures only reveal two comings of Christ.

2 Thess. 2:1-4 - concerning the coming of the Lord, there will be a time of great trouble. As part of their rapture theory, Protestants call this period the "tribulation."

1 Thess. 4:17; 2 Thess. 2:1-4 - the question is when the rapture will occur. Will it occur before (pre), during (mid) or after (post) the tribulation?

Rev. 20:2-3; 7 - these verses refer to the thousand year period where satan is bound and Christ reigns. Protestants often called this period the "millennium." However, the "thousand" year period only means a very long time. It, like much of apocalyptic literature, is not to be taken literally.

Psalm 50:10 - for example, we see the cattle on a "thousand hills." The word "thousand" here obviously means a very long time. It cannot be taken literally. This is the same with the "thousand" used in the Apocalypse.

Dan. 7:10 - a "thousand thousands" served him. Again, "thousand" means a very long time. It is not to be taken literally.

2 Peter 3:8 - with God one day is a "thousand" years and a "thousand" years is one day. "Thousand" is symbolic for a long time.

Matt. 16:27; 25:31-46 - the fact that there is immediate punishment rejects the premillenialism idea of a 1,000 year span between the second coming of Christ and the final judgment.

Matt. 24:24-31; Mark. 13:24-27; 2 Thess. 2:1-12 - these verses reject the premillenialism and mid-tribulation view because the rapture and the tribulation occur together.

Matt. 13:24-30; 36-43 - the wheat and weeds parable rejects the postmillenialism idea that the world will be Christianized before the end of time.

Rev. 20:4 - this verse shows the millennium is the period of Christ's current reign with his saints in heaven and his rule through the Church. This view, which Protestants call "amillenialism," is consistent with the Catholic view. The rapture and the second coming will occur after Christ's reign and the end of the Church Militant on earth. There is thus no "rapture" that precedes the second coming of Jesus.

Rev. 20:3; Matt. 12:29-30 - satan is currently bound during this millennium insofar as he cannot prevent the spreading of the Gospel.

Luke 10:17-18 - after the elders preached the Gospel, Jesus said He saw satan fall like lightning. Thus, satan is currently bound and cannot prevent us from evangelizing the world.

2 Peter 3:10-15 - in the meantime, we wait for the Lord's coming with zeal, avoiding sin, and being at peace, in the hope of our salvation.

[url="http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/raptured_catholics.htm"]http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/raptured_catholics.htm[/url]

[phatcatholic]

these will help. pick one and start reading

[b]The Rapture, Premillennialism, and Dispensationalism[/b]
[u][i]End Times[/i][/u]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp"]The Rapture[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5829"]Waiting to be Raptured[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5788"]Five Myths about the Rapture[/url]
--[url="http://cuf.org/member/rapture.pdf"]Now You See 'Em, Now You Don't: "Dispensing" with the Rapture[/url]
--[url="http://www.mark-shea.com/apoc.html"]Apocalypse Now[/url]
--[url="http://cuf.org/nonmemb/millrap.pdf"]Apocalypse [i]Not[/i] Now[/url]
--[url="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0087.html"]Are We Living in the Last Days?[/url]
--[url="http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/disp.html"]Dispensationalism and Its Errors[/url]
--[url="http://www.icubed.com/~rpoe/dispense.htm"]Dispensationalism: Another Gospel[/url]
--[url="http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/olson200312290001.asp"]Not with a Biblical Bang: Looks Like Saddam's Not the End After All[/url]
--[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20040202191857/http://onerock.com/issue_3_24.htm"]I Used to Believe in the Rapture, and All I Got Was This Stupid T-Shirt[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=6&art_id=1705"]Catholics and the Rapture[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=200"]Prophets of Doom Profit from Gloom[/url]
--[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20040225092250/http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/WQuercus/articles/visions.htm"]Visions of Apocalypse: A Comparative Chart[/url]
--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/graphics/Millennial_Chart_03"]Millennial Views: A Comparative Chart[/url]
--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/graphics/Cath_Disp_Comp_03.pdf"]Catholic Eschatology vs. Premillennial Dispensationalism: A Comparative Chart[/url]
--[url="http://davidmacd.com/catholic/raptured_catholics.htm"]Are Catholics Into the Rapture?[/url]
--[b]note:[/b] also see the "Tim LaHaye's [i]Left Behind[/i] Series" section of the [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=9728"][b][i]Anti-Catholicism[/i] entry[/b][/url]
[u][i]The Book of Revelations[/i][/u]
--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/articles/endbegin_newcov.html"]The End is Only the Beginning: The Book of Revelation[/url]
--[url="http://www.aboutcatholics.com/viewpage.php?story=1"]Daniel, Revelation, and the Rapture Myth[/url]
--[url="http://www.aboutcatholics.com/viewpage.php?story=16"]Revelation: Symbols and Numbers[/url]
--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/articles/bkrevelation_thisrock.html"]The Time Is Near: Five Common Misinterpretations of the Book of Revelation[/url]


pax christi,
phatcatholic

[StColette]

Okay so what I've gathered through reading is that Catholics believe in the Post-Tribulation Rapture, meaning that Christians will suffer great persecutions and tribulations before they are called up.

[goldenchild17]

Okay, so post-trib. Now, with the rapture, is everyone taken up in this rapture? Or is there more than one, with different groups going at different times?

[goldenchild17]

Ya'll are saying there's some kind of rapture? But some of those articles say there aren't? I'm confuzzled

[StColette]

We can't deny that there is not a rapture because the Bible clearly tells us that there is. What the articles are saying is probably in consideration of the three different theories, well the well known theories, about the rapture. I've been reading up on this and what I've read and understand is that those who will be raptured, are going to suffer through the tribulation, as a sort of test I'm guessing to see the strength of their faith. To put it to the test so to speak. The ones who will be taken up to the Lord in the rapture are those who have been faithful to Him and to His commandments.

[cmotherofpirl]

The Rapture


Are you Pre, Mid, or Post? If you don’t know how to answer that question, you’re probably a Catholic. Most Fundamentalists and Evangelicals know that these words are shorthand for pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post-tribulation. The terms all refer to when the rapture is supposed to occur.


The Millennium



In Revelation 20:1–3, 7–8, we read, "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while. . . . And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth."

The period of a thousand years, the writer tells us, is the reign of Christ, and the thousand-year period is popularly called the millennium. The millennium is a harbinger of the end of the world, and Revelation 20 is interpreted in three ways by conservative Protestants. The three schools of thought are called postmillennialism, amillennialism, and premillennialism. Let’s take a look at them.


Postmillennialism



According to Loraine Boettner in his book The Millennium (he also wrote the seriously defective anti-Catholic book Roman Catholicism), postmillennialism is "that view of last things which holds that the kingdom of God is now being extended in the world through the preaching of the gospel and the saving work of the Holy Spirit, that the world eventually is to be Christianized, and that the return of Christ will occur at the close of a long period of righteousness and peace, commonly called the millennium."

This view was popular with nineteenth-century Protestants, when progress was expected even in religion and before twentieth-century horrors were tasted. Today few hold to it, except such groups as Christian Reconstructionists, an outgrowth of the conservative Presbyterian movement.

Commentators point out that postmillennialism is to be distinguished from the view of theological and secular liberals who envision social betterment and even the kingdom of God coming through purely natural, rather than supernatural, means. Postmillennialists, however, argue that man is incapable of building a paradise for himself; paradise will only come about by God’s grace.

Postmillennialists also typically say that the millennium spoken of in Revelation 20 should be understood figuratively and that the phrase "a thousand years" refers not to a fixed period of ten centuries, but to an indefinitely long time. For example, Psalm 50:10 speaks of God’s sovereignty over all that is and tells us that God owns "the cattle on a thousand hills." This is not meant to be taken literally.

At the millennium’s end will come the Second Coming, the general resurrection of the dead, and the last judgment.

The problem with postmillennialism is that Scripture does not depict the world as experiencing a
period of complete (or relatively complete) Christianization before the Second Coming. There are numerous passages that speak of the age between the First and Second Comings as a time of great sorrow and strife for Christians. One revealing passage is the parable of the wheat and the weeds (Matt. 13:24–30, 36–43). In this parable, Christ declares that the righteous and the wicked will both be planted and grow alongside each other in God’s field ("the field is the world," Matt. 13:38) until the end of the world, when they will be separated, judged, and either be thrown into the fire of hell or inherit God’s kingdom (Matt. 13:41–43). There is no biblical evidence that the world will eventually become totally (or even almost totally) Christian, but rather that there will always be a parallel development of the righteous and the wicked until the final judgment.


Amillennialism



The amillennial view interprets Revelation 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an earthly golden age in which the world will be totally Christianized, but as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church. This was the view of the Protestant Reformers and is still the most common view among traditional Protestants, though not among most of the newer Evangelical and Fundamentalist groups.

Amillennialists also believe in the coexistence of good and evil on earth until the end. The tension that exists on earth between the righteous and the wicked will be resolved only by Christ’s return at the end of time. The golden age of the millennium is instead the heavenly reign of Christ with the saints, in which the Church on earth participates to some degree, though not in the glorious way it will at the Second Coming.

Amillennialists point out that the thrones of the saints who reign with Christ during the millennium appear to be set in heaven (Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4, 11:16) and that the text nowhere states that Christ is on earth during this reign with the saints.

They explain that, although the world will never be fully Christianized until the Second Coming, the millennium does have effects on earth in that Satan is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by hindering the preaching of the gospel (Rev. 20:3). They point out that Jesus spoke of the necessity of "binding the strong man" (Satan) in order to plunder his house by rescuing people from his grip (Matt. 12:29). When the disciples returned from a tour of preaching the gospel, rejoicing at how demons were subject to them, Jesus declared, "I saw Satan fall like lightning" (Luke 10:18). Thus for the gospel to move forward at all in the world, it is necessary for Satan to be bound in one sense, even if he may still be active in attacking individuals (1 Pet. 5:8).

The millennium is a golden age not when compared to the glories of the age to come, but in comparison to all prior ages of human history, in which the world was swallowed in pagan darkness. Today, a third of the human race is Christian and even more than that have repudiated pagan idols and embraced the worship of the God of Abraham.


Premillennialism



Third on the list is premillennialism, currently the most popular among Fundamentalists and Evangelicals (though a century ago amillennialism was). Most of the books written about the End Times, such as Hal Lindsey’s Late Great Planet Earth, are written from a premillennial perspective.

Like postmillennialists, premillennialists believe that the thousand years is an earthly golden age during which the world will be thoroughly Christianized. Unlike postmillennialists, they believe that it will occur after the Second Coming rather than before, so that Christ reigns physically on earth during the millennium. They believe that the Final Judgment will occur only after the millennium is over (which many interpret to be an exactly one thousand year period).

But Scripture does not support the idea of a thousand year span between the Second Coming and the Final Judgment. Christ declares, "For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done" (Matt. 16:27), and "[w]hen the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. . . . And they [the goats] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:31–32, 46).


The Rapture



Premillennialists often give much attention to the doctrine of the rapture. According to this doctrine, when Christ returns, all of the elect who have died will be raised and transformed into a glorious state, along with the living elect, and then be caught up to be with Christ. The key text referring to the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, which states, "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."

Premillennialists hold, as do virtually all Christians (except certain postmillennialists), that the Second Coming will be preceded by a time of great trouble and persecution of God’s people (2 Thess. 2:1–4). This period is often called the tribulation. Until the nineteenth century, all Christians agreed that the rapture—though it was not called that at the time—would occur immediately before the Second Coming, at the close of the period of persecution. This position is today called the "post-tribulational" view because it says the rapture will come after the tribulation.

But in the 1800s, some began to claim that the rapture would occur before the period of persecution. This position, now known as the "pre-tribulational" view, also was embraced by John Nelson Darby, an early leader of a Fundamentalist movement that became known as Dispensationalism. Darby’s pre-tribulational view of the rapture was then picked up by a man named C.I. Scofield, who taught the view in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible, which was widely distributed in England and America. Many Protestants who read the Scofield Reference Bible uncritically accepted what its footnotes said and adopted the pre-tribulational view, even though no Christian had heard of it in the previous 1800 years of Church history.

Eventually, a third position developed, known as the "mid-tribulational" view, which claims that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. Finally, a fourth view developed that claims that there will not be a single rapture where all believers are gathered to Christ, but that there will be a series of mini-raptures that occur at different times with respect to the tribulation.

This confusion has caused the movement to split into bitterly opposed camps.

The problem with all of the positions (except the historic, post-tribulational view, which was accepted by all Christians, including non-premillennialists) is that they split the Second Coming into different events. In the case of the pre-trib view, Christ is thought to have three comings—one when he was born in Bethlehem, one when he returns for the rapture at the tribulation’s beginning, and one at tribulation’s end, when he establishes the millennium. This three-comings view is foreign to Scripture.

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, who wrote: "Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it" (The Word of Truth, 556–7).


What’s the Catholic Position?



As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).


Spinning Wheels?



Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace" (2 Pet. 3:8–14).


NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='StColette' date='Nov 8 2004, 01:06 PM'] We can't deny that there is not a rapture because the Bible clearly tells us that there is. What the articles are saying is probably in consideration of the three different theories, well the well known theories, about the rapture. I've been reading up on this and what I've read and understand is that those who will be raptured, are going to suffer through the tribulation, as a sort of test I'm guessing to see the strength of their faith. To put it to the test so to speak. The ones who will be taken up to the Lord in the rapture are those who have been faithful to Him and to His commandments. [/quote]
correct.

where this differs from protestant understanding of the rapture is that christians actually undergo the tribulation, whereas protestants believe that the "saved" are raptured so as to avoid the tribulation

[StColette]

hmm I believe it's about time someone wrote a tract on this

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='StColette' date='Nov 8 2004, 03:32 PM'] hmm I believe it's about time someone wrote a tract on this [/quote]
yea, i've been wanting one for a while now. as soon as i have the time i'll probably write one

[Paladin D]

I grew up believing in the Rapture, though I'm not an expert at debuking the concept. If you got around $15-$20(?), trying purchasing: [b]"Will Catholics Be Left Behind?"[/b] [i]Carl E. Olson[/i]

It's a fantastic and easy-to-read book, it refutes practically (from what I've experienced) all the arguments and claims of and around the concept of the Rapture. Of course there will be people over time that will find new ways to prove this idea of a Rapture (in it's infamous form), but this book is definately worth the investment.