Northwest Passage

[crusader1234]

Hey,

I'm currently very angry. Every once in a while, the CBC updates the Canadian public about the current state of affairs regarding the Northwest Passage and threats to Canadian Sovereignty over it.

[img]http://www.cnn.com/interactive/maps/us/dateline.northwest.passage/dateline.northwest.passage.gif[/img]

The United States (note this isn't an attack on American's) and its government claim that it the passage is international waters, even though it clearly goes through Canadian Offshore Economic Zones and is basically a big route through the Canadian Arctic Archipelago.

I really really am annoyed by this and figured I'd post my frustration.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Maybe the US should stop trading all together with Canada...

[Sinner]

Hate to be nieve...... but what does it all mean for us?

[crusader1234]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 9 2004, 12:15 AM'] Maybe the US should stop trading all together with Canada... [/quote]
Orr... that post makes no sense? I don't really get what the point of that was... but for one thing, trade makes sense. If people are barging through our archipelago and our OEZ, that invasion.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Nov 9 2004, 01:54 AM'] Orr... that post makes no sense?  I don't really get what the point of that was... but for one thing, trade makes sense.  If people are barging through our archipelago and our OEZ, that invasion. [/quote]
My point is that it seems like a bit of a goofy point for a nation whose economy depends strongly on the United States to complain about violation of national territory rights when that trade which is violating that territory is helping said country.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

how funny that I just worked on a paper that mentioned the French looking for the Northwest Passage....


Carry on...

[Paladin D]

Well you do have a point [b]crusader[/b], but it would be hard to find another way around. At least it's more of a remote area of Canada, right? But I agree, if the we were in the same situation... we would be forcing everyone to take another route.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Nov 9 2004, 01:29 AM'] how funny that I just worked on a paper that mentioned the French looking for the Northwest Passage....


Carry on... [/quote]
My third grader recently finished learning about that, too.




That is all...

[Mickey's_Girl]

I always love talking Canada with you, Crusader 1234. Thanks for bringing this up!

A few thoughts:

1. I didn't remember that the "Northwest Passage" ended up being a real thing! I vaguely remember learning about the quest for it when I was in 4th grade or so. I have a vague recollection of Henry Hudson et al. I guess I never made the connection--thought it was a myth, like the 7 cities of Cebolla. I feel so learned now!

2. Thanks for providing the map! It made the whole thing much clearer.

3. I'm feeling ya about the whole OEZ thing. I know pretty much nothing about the issue, but I have a question: looking at the map, it *seems* like both Alaska and Greenland have *almost* as much shoreline at stake as Canada. Doesn't Canada use the passage much? Wouldn't it be beneficial for all parties to share the NP?

(Looking back at what I just wrote, I realize that Greenland is very sparsely unpopulated, not a heavy trader, etc. But I'm sure they have some opinion on it.)

If you have any websites to pass along that would enlighten me, I'd be interested in learning more.

MG

[God Conquers]

Listen... saying the NW passage is international waters is like saying the Mississippi is international waters, or the spaces between the islands of Hawaii.

Ridiculous.

To sail through without authorization is aggression and an attack on the sovereignty of a nation.

Micah! Should China be allowed to sail unnanounced or unwanted into San Francisco Bay?

I didn't think so.

[Theoketos]

Techinacally the Missippi is international waters...

[God Conquers]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Nov 9 2004, 02:52 PM'] Techinacally the Missippi is international waters... [/quote]


Really?

[crusader1234]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 9 2004, 12:58 AM'] My point is that it seems like a bit of a goofy point for a nation whose economy depends strongly on the United States to complain about violation of national territory rights when that trade which is violating that territory is helping said country. [/quote]
Actually, when the US violates the NWP, it would be for its own personal gain, as any trade between Canada and the United States would most likely go across the border, not around the entire continent.

And while the NWP goes near Alaska, Russia, and Greenland, it doesn't neccesarily have to enter their OEZ. The NWP goes through very (relatively) narrow passages that go into our OEZ.

Just because our nations have a (mostly) simbiotic relationship as far as economies go, doesn't mean that you should be able to invade us.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Nov 9 2004, 03:52 PM'] Techinacally the Missippi is international waters... [/quote]
Actually, it's American waters, maintained by the US Army Corps of Engineers.

In general, a country's soverenty extends 3 nautical miles from its shoreline. There are some countries that claim more.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Nov 9 2004, 07:50 PM'] Actually, when the US violates the NWP, it would be for its own personal gain, as any trade between Canada and the United States would most likely go across the border, not around the entire continent.

And while the NWP goes near Alaska, Russia, and Greenland, it doesn't neccesarily have to enter their OEZ. The NWP goes through very (relatively) narrow passages that go into our OEZ.

Just because our nations have a (mostly) simbiotic relationship as far as economies go, doesn't mean that you should be able to invade us. [/quote]
And you should know that the strength of our economy, aided by passing through the gap, determines in part how much business we can do with your nation, even if passing through the gap is not direct trade with Canada.

I don't think you can call it "invasion" in any sense, anyway. Invasion implies military incursion for the purpose of political gain.

[God Conquers]

That doesn't give you the right to ignore international law, or Canadian law.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Nov 9 2004, 08:53 PM'] That doesn't give you the right to ignore international law, or Canadian law. [/quote]
I agree (and I'm American).

[crusader1234]

I get a strong feeling from you Raphael, that you feel that you should be allowed to walk over Canada because you're bigger and our economies depend in part on one another. That offends me.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Nov 9 2004, 08:53 PM'] That doesn't give you the right to ignore international law, or Canadian law. [/quote]
No, it doesn't. Nor did I imply it.

I merely meant that people need not to whine so much about things that are actually helping them.

There are millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico in the United States and I really don't care, because they actually help our economy.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Nov 9 2004, 10:34 PM'] I get a strong feeling from you Raphael, that you feel that you should be allowed to walk over Canada because you're bigger and our economies depend in part on one another. That offends me. [/quote]
I don't think we should be allowed to walk all over Canada. I simply think that Canada should lighten up and let it go, especially since it's actually helping them.

And don't play the personally offended card on me, I didn't appreciate any of your Bush-bashing, especially claiming that your media was unbiased to do it.