SirMyztiq Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 As I sit here watching this third great awakening developing I often wondered why all of a sudden religion is once again beginning to make a great impact. Is it just a phase? History proves it so. Right now we are going through massive change. And like Thomas Paine once said "massive change brings massive fear and uncertainty" which is true. We have the homosexuals coming out and after so long of hiding in the shadows of our society they finally now feel that their time in the dark is over. We have strong right members of our government pulling our president toward keeping the conservative base happy. It's sad now that I've actually looked through Bush's history he isn't as leaned to the right as I would have expected. He can actually compare to Bill Clinton because Bush seems to be more of a moderate Republican just like Clinton was a moderate Democrat. But we have the right pulling on our president and all of a sudden this country is revolving about "moral" issues. Which aren't really "moral" their religious issues. So what do we get? What do those anti-gay and anti-rights conservatives do? They bring back the very center that used to be their stronghold. Religion. They bring religion into play and now we have a crowd following them. Because they are using the name of God in ther favor. Because we have Islamic fundamentalist attacking us because of our "freedom" (which couldn't be as far from the truth) and throughout all the confusion and dilemma people once again fall back to religion. Too much change can make a person do that. Some humans just need boundaries and limits to which they can trap themselves in order to feel more secure about themselves and how the world is changing. What happens after most awakenings? The age of reason. The great enlightenment. And this awakening has been going on for some time. Hopefully in four more years, unless we fall under this president, this country will once again open it's eyes.
Guest Aluigi Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 i think it's more accurate to say history tells us religion will never go away.
SirMyztiq Posted November 19, 2004 Author Posted November 19, 2004 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 18 2004, 11:46 PM'] i think it's more accurate to say history tells us religion will never go away. [/quote] True. But there are time when people start thinking for themselves. Religion doesn't go away. I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with religious groups trying to influence those that aren't part of them.
Good Friday Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 [quote name='SirMyztiq']True. But there are time when people start thinking for themselves. Religion doesn't go away. I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with religious groups trying to influence those that aren't part of them.[/quote] Nobody's trying to do that. If you're not here to listen to what people here have to say, then why are you here? As people have told you since you started posting here, no one is trying to impose our beliefs on people who do not believe in them. If we were doing that, it would mean that we were trying to legislate, for instance, belief in the Trinity or meatless Fridays during Lent. No one is suggesting that. What you're failing to understand is that some things which are articles of faith for Catholics are also elements of the Natural Law, and the Natural Law is the ultimate law that validates all lesser laws (including our Constitution) and it also happens to be the law upon which our own constitutional law is based. In the Declaration of Independence, the first right that is called inalienable is the right to life. How does one who supports abortion on demand, which has been scientifically proven to end human life, reconcile his support for abortion with the fundamental right in our Declaration of Independence? You have been asked this question several times and have not once responded it -- I would like a response, please.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 I don't think religion makes comebacks nearly so much as secularism fails. God always there, and we ignore Him, but then realize we need Him, and then we ignore Him again, and then realize we need Him...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 (edited) [quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 18 2004, 11:43 PM'] So what do we get? What do those anti-gay and anti-rights conservatives do? They bring back the very center that used to be their stronghold. Religion. They bring religion into play and now we have a crowd following them. Because they are using the name of God in ther favor. Because we have Islamic fundamentalist attacking us because of our "freedom" (which couldn't be as far from the truth) and throughout all the confusion and dilemma people once again fall back to religion. [/quote] Actually you're correct, partially. We have an Islamic fundamentalist attacking us [i]because[/i] of religion - not freedom. Because we, as a predominately Christian nation, are friendly and even sympathetic to Israel - the forefathers of our faith. So, I would venture to say, this very reason is probably closest to the mark. That being said, it makes sense that once the notion of religion has been pushed to the fore-front of national thought, it would be examined again. That would explain the resurgence of the fight for anti-gay legislation (as you would put it). It's a national examination of conscience, so to speak. The fudamentalist muslims hate us for multitudinous reasons, not just because of our support of Israel - one of their sworn enemies - but because the things that our "freedom" in this country allows - things like abortion, prostitution, gambling, conspicous consumption, women's rights, and choice in worship. So yes, it falls back to faith. Because that is basic. Faith means hope and without hope all is truly lost. Edited November 19, 2004 by Kilroy the Ninja
popestpiusx Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 [quote name='Good Friday' date='Nov 19 2004, 02:39 AM'] As people have told you since you started posting here, no one is trying to impose our beliefs on people who do not believe in them. [/quote] I say to hell with it. Let's start imposing.
LovingIt! Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 I don't remember Jesus waiting for the pharisees to ask him if he had anything to say, he wandered right in to Jerusalem and put it right in their faces. Why do completely 'certain' athiests get so upset at any slight hint of Christian outreach while Christians who are bombarded with secular incursions daily just accept it as 'one of those things'
azaelia Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 19 2004, 10:22 AM'] I say to hell with it. Let's start imposing. [/quote] I feel like I shouldn't be laughing...but....
Socrates Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 19 2004, 09:22 AM'] I say to hell with it. Let's start imposing. [/quote] Hoo- RAH!!
noncatholicname Posted November 20, 2004 Posted November 20, 2004 (edited) [quote name='LovingIt!' date='Nov 19 2004, 12:20 PM'] I don't remember Jesus waiting for the pharisees to ask him if he had anything to say, he wandered right in to Jerusalem and put it right in their faces. Why do completely 'certain' athiests get so upset at any slight hint of Christian outreach while Christians who are bombarded with secular incursions daily just accept it as 'one of those things' [/quote] Impressive reasoning. I need to remember that one. I've asked that question differently in the past, and I still haven't gotten a decent answer from an atheist. If they are so certain there is no God, then why go so bonkers every time someone so much as mentions Christ or God? Edited November 20, 2004 by noncatholicname
Guest JeffCR07 Posted November 20, 2004 Posted November 20, 2004 [quote]Religion doesn't go away. I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with religious groups trying to influence those that aren't part of them.[/quote] lol, GK Chesterton would say that you have a problem with democracy then, and I think I would agree. If Democracy is anything, it is a hundred million groups trying to influence those that aren't part of them.
Quietfire Posted November 20, 2004 Posted November 20, 2004 (edited) misspost. Edited November 20, 2004 by Quietfire
Sinner Posted November 21, 2004 Posted November 21, 2004 (edited) Moral values and Natural Law are making an impact....... it just so happens that people who have "got religion" believe in these value issues. As Christians we are actually called to "impose" the gospel on those around us...... Edited November 21, 2004 by Sinner
Quietfire Posted November 21, 2004 Posted November 21, 2004 I wouldnt mind knocking on a few Jehovah's Witnessess doors. We could start at around, say....5-6 am. Who's game?
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 [quote name='Quietfire' date='Nov 21 2004, 07:59 PM'] I wouldnt mind knocking on a few Jehovah's Witnessess doors. We could start at around, say....5-6 am. Who's game? [/quote] Hmmm...that's too late for me...how about 3 am?
SirMyztiq Posted November 22, 2004 Author Posted November 22, 2004 [quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Nov 19 2004, 09:01 AM'] Actually you're correct, partially. We have an Islamic fundamentalist attacking us [i]because[/i] of religion - not freedom. Because we, as a predominately Christian nation, are friendly and even sympathetic to Israel - the forefathers of our faith. So, I would venture to say, this very reason is probably closest to the mark. That being said, it makes sense that once the notion of religion has been pushed to the fore-front of national thought, it would be examined again. That would explain the resurgence of the fight for anti-gay legislation (as you would put it). It's a national examination of conscience, so to speak. The fudamentalist muslims hate us for multitudinous reasons, not just because of our support of Israel - one of their sworn enemies - but because the things that our "freedom" in this country allows - things like abortion, prostitution, gambling, conspicous consumption, women's rights, and choice in worship. So yes, it falls back to faith. Because that is basic. Faith means hope and without hope all is truly lost. [/quote] True about those extremist attacking this country because it's Christian. But hey! Those recent mosque raidings sure don't help! Or the fact that the US has openly helped Israel by providing it weapons and means in order to defeat those muslim countries which cost muslims lives. And that the US is blind to the nations that are attacking Israel. Except when we aided Bin Laden against the Russians or when we gave Hussain alot of money. Or maybe how we manage to attack only Muslim nations up to now? The 9/11 attacks were foreign policy. The recent hatred is our position in Iraq.
Quietfire Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 21 2004, 07:01 PM'] Hmmm...that's too late for me...how about 3 am? [/quote] just tell me where and when!
Balthazor Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 [quote name='Quietfire' date='Nov 21 2004, 06:59 PM'] I wouldnt mind knocking on a few Jehovah's Witnessess doors. We could start at around, say....5-6 am. Who's game? [/quote] Our new priest told us that at the last parish he was in the rectory was across the street from the church and was an innocen looking house. Every Saturday, thier would be a knock at the door and every Saturday he would be waiting for them...in his clerics, with pamphlets. Gotta love it!!!
Kilroy the Ninja Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 [quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 22 2004, 02:13 AM'] But hey! Those recent mosque raidings sure don't help! Or the fact that the US has openly helped Israel by providing it weapons and means in order to defeat those muslim countries which cost muslims lives. And that the US is blind to the nations that are attacking Israel. Except when we aided Bin Laden against the Russians or when we gave Hussain alot of money. Or maybe how we manage to attack only Muslim nations up to now? The 9/11 attacks were foreign policy. The recent hatred is our position in Iraq. [/quote] Maybe I can attribute it to the late hour, but could you please clarify your post. What is your point?
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