What is the Mystical Body of Christ?

[amarkich]

There are all kinds of problems that arise from an erroneous understanding of the Mystical Body of Christ, and I would post my comments now, but I would like to see the poll results first. So, vote away (and comment if you would like).

[Guest Aluigi]

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P12MYSTI.HTM"]MYSTICI CORPORIS CHRISTI Pope Piux XII[/url]

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='amarkich' date='Nov 25 2004, 09:39 PM'] There are all kinds of problems that arise from an erroneous understanding of the Mystical Body of Christ, and I would post my comments now, but I would like to see the poll results first. So, vote away (and comment if you would like). [/quote]
We recently covered the topic of the Eucharist in our Confirmation class. As far as I can understand, our teachers taught that the Mystical Body of Christ is made up of all humans created by Christ. However, we were also taught that the synaxis (The Eucharistic Assmebly) is made up of everyone in heaven, purgatory, and the Catholic Church on Earth. I'm not quite sure what the answer is.

Edited November 26, 2004 by conservativecatholic

[Guest Aluigi]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 25 2004, 09:52 PM'] [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P12MYSTI.HTM"]MYSTICI CORPORIS CHRISTI Pope Piux XII[/url] [/quote]
conservativecatholic, read this. Mystical Body of Christ= Catholic Church centered in Rome

[Guest Aluigi]

however, it's probably true about the Eucharistic Assembly is made up of the Church Militant (earth), Church Suffering (purgatory) and Church Triumphant (Heaven)

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 25 2004, 09:58 PM'] conservativecatholic, read this.  Mystical Body of Christ= Catholic Church centered in Rome [/quote]
Thanks! That helped! Also, one can check out New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia for information on the Mystical Body of Christ.

[quote]This truth, that the Church is the mystical body of Christ, all its members being guided and directed by Christ the head, is set forth by St. Paul in various passages, more especially in Ephesians 4:4-13 (cf. John 15:5-8). [/quote]

Edited November 26, 2004 by conservativecatholic

[amarkich]

I guess that takes away the controversy to some extent, Aluigi There have been several so-called Catholics on this forum, however, who have asserted different claims, especially numbers 2 and 4. I would classify number 1 as Catholic, number 2 as liberal "Catholic" (and number 4), number 3 as Protestant, and number 5 as Lumen Gentium.

[cmotherofpirl]

! Cor 12: 12 - 31
12: For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.
13: For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body -- Jews or Greeks, slaves or free -- and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
14: For the body does not consist of one member but of many.
15: If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body.
16: And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body.
17: If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell?
18: But as it is, God arranged the organs in the body, each one of them, as he chose.
19: If all were a single organ, where would the body be?
20: As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
21: The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
22: On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable,
23: and those parts of the body which we think less honorable we invest with the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty,
24: which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part,
25: that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.
26: If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
27: Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
28: And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues.
29: Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
30: Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
31: But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

[cmotherofpirl]

Normally you are baptised into the Body of Christ.

[Guest Aluigi]

"Jews or Greeks" refer to the races, not religion obviously since Greek isn't one.

[amarkich]

Ditto.

By the way, here is a good quote from[i] Mystici Corporis Christi[/i]:

"13. If we would define and describe this true Church of Jesus Christ—which is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church[12]—we shall find nothing more noble, more sublime, or more divine than the expression "the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ"—an expression which springs from and is, as it were, the fair flowering of the repeated teaching of the Sacred Scriptures and the holy Fathers."

12. Cf. ibidem, Const. de fide cath., c. 1

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote name='amarkich' date='Nov 25 2004, 11:07 PM'] I guess that takes away the controversy to some extent, Aluigi There have been several so-called Catholics on this forum, however, who have asserted different claims, especially numbers 2 and 4. I would classify number 1 as Catholic, number 2 as liberal "Catholic" (and number 4), number 3 as Protestant, [b]and number 5 as Lumen Gentium[/b]. [/quote]

LOL...

Edited November 26, 2004 by CatholicCrusader

[Guest Aluigi]

woah, how did i miss that? substantiate your claim that Lumen Gentium proposes number 5.

[jasJis]

The correct answer is #2, even though amarkich says it's "liberal".
Please read the following from the Baltimore Catechism, BUT READ IT ALL!!! amarkich is only [i]slightly[/i] mistaken. Read to the end regarding excuses and responses to excuses to not belong to the visible Church.:[quote]Q.
488. [b]Which are the means instituted by Our Lord to enable men at all times to
share in the fruits of the Redemption? [/b]A. The means instituted by Our Lord to enable men at all times to share in the
fruits of His Redemption are the Church and the Sacraments.

Q.
489. [b]What is the Church? [/b]A. The Church is the congregation of all those who profess the faith of Christ,
partake of the same Sacraments, and are governed by their lawful pastors under
one visible Head.

Q.
490. [b]How may the members of the Church on earth be divided? [/b]A. The members of the Church on earth may be divided into those who teach and
those who are taught. Those who teach, namely, the Pope, bishops and priests,
are called the Teaching Church, or simply the Church. Those who are taught are
called the Believing Church, or simply the faithful.


Q.
508. [b]Why did Christ found the Church? [/b]A. Christ founded the Church to teach, govern, sanctify, and save all men.

Q.
509. [b]Are all bound to belong to the Church? [/b]A. [u]All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it cannot be saved. [/u]

Q.
510. [b]Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic
Church to be the true Church? [/b]A. [u]It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to
be the true Church, [b]provided that person[/b]: [/u]
1. (1) Has been validly baptized; [b]and[/b]
2. (2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, [b]and[/b]
3. (3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

Q.
511. [b]Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not
know the Catholic Church to be the true Church? [/b]A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the
Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not
often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of
the Sacrament of Penance.

Q.
512. [b]How are such persons said to belong to the Church? [/b]
A. Such persons are said to belong to the "soul of the church"; that is, they
are really members of the Church without knowing it. Those who share in its
Sacraments and worship are said to belong to the body or visible part of the
Church.

[b]Q.
514. What excuses do some give for not becoming members of the true Church?
A. The excuses some give for not becoming members of the true church are: [/b]1. (1) They do not wish to leave the religion in which they were born.
2. (2) There are too many poor and ignorant people in the Catholic Church.
3. (3) One religion is as good as another if we try to serve God in it, and be
upright and honest in our lives.

[b]Q.
515. How do you answer such excuses? [/b]A.
1. (1) To say that we should remain in a false religion because we were born
in it is as untrue as to say we should not heal our bodily diseases because we
were born with them.
2. (2) To say there are too many poor and ignorant in the Catholic Church is
to declare that it is Christ´s Church; for He always taught the poor and
ignorant and instructed His Church to continue the work.
3. (3) To say that one religion is as good as another is to assert that Christ
labored uselessly and taught falsely; for He came to abolish the old religion
and found the new in which alone we can be saved as He Himself declared.

Q.
516. [b]Why can there be only one true religion? [/b]
A. There can be only one true religion, because a thing cannot be false and true at the same time, and, therefore, all religions that contradict the teaching of the true Church must teach falsehood. If all religions in which men seek to serve God are equally good and true, why did Christ disturb the Jewish religion and the Apostles condemn heretics?
[/quote]

Edited November 26, 2004 by jasJis

[CatholicCrusader]

Didn't log out.

Edited November 26, 2004 by CatholicCrusader

[amarkich]

Aluigi, proposition number 5 is taught in both the CCC and Lumen Gentium (the CCC cites LG as its source). Here is the support:

CCC, Paragraph #836
"All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."320

(from the American Bishops' website)
N.B., footnote 320 is to Lumen Gentium, 13

Lumen Gentium, 13:

13. "All men are called to this catholic unity which prefigures and promotes
universal peace. And in different ways to it belong, or are related: the
Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind,
called by God's grace to salvation."

N.B., this is the last paragraph in Article 13; the two preceeding paragraphs of Article 13 have more to say.


In any event, I think everyone would consider proposition 3 to be Protestant. Number 4 is the liberal "Catholic" belief that "Jews can be saved in their own 'Covenant'". Proposition 2 is also liberal insofar as it was defined otherwise by [i]Mystici Corporis Christi[/i]. I have read similar things to what jasJis posted, but that was written before it was more strictly defined by Pope Pius XI.

[Guest Aluigi]

the Body of Christ consists of the Church Militant, Church Suffering, and Church Triumphant. Those on earth related to the Church in intention of following God's will through the dictates of their conscience (if it is uninformed by the Church but they are not culpable) or imperfectly united to the Church through valid baptism and are again inculpably ignorant of the necessity of Christ's Church are not truly members of the Church Militant arm of the Mystical Body of Christ but upon death by the mercy of God may enter into the Church Suffering then Church Triumphant provided that at the moment of their death they were not culpable for the sin of separation and that they were united to the Church's intention in wanting to follow God's will during their life while not explicitly members, implicitly united to the Church.

your quotations, Amarkich, are perfectly orthodox. all men are [b]called[/b] to the Catholic Unity, some who are not explicit members of the Church can be united to it in a lesser [i]imperfect[/i] degree such that upon the moment of their death they will be united to the Church through God's Mercy.

In any event, one must say that there is no difference between the Mystical Body of Christ and the Catholic Church (Centered in Rome). There is no member of the Mystical Body of Christ who is not an explicit member of the Catholic Church (centered in Rome). However, those who are do not make up the Mystical Body of Christ may be imperfectly connected or related to it as Lumen Gentium says. Full members of the Church are the only ones truly incorperated into the Body of Christ, though imperfect 'members' may be incorperated into her at the moment of death receiving baptism through their desire for it upon the moment of death, their entrance into the Body of Christ is only effective upon their death and it is not assured this will happen.

Edited November 26, 2004 by Aluigi

[Catalyst]

centered in Rome....the church is not a building but is the gathering of His people. The church is all the bible believing Christains who hear the word of God, do the word of God with the right heart behind the two...

[Guest Aluigi]

its earthly center is in Rome, but it is stil Christo-centric. the earthly center is the place of the successor to Peter existing in order to keep everyone unified in the same Faith without doctrinal disagreement.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Nov 26 2004, 06:08 PM'] centered in Rome....the church is not a building but is the gathering of His people. The church is all the bible believing Christains who hear the word of God, do the word of God with the right heart behind the two... [/quote]
THe Body of Christ are those members[i] baptised[/i] into it.