Dave Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 [quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Nov 28 2004, 05:35 PM'] Does a condemned soul ever get to see the face of God before being cast into hell? I'm not speaking literally since spirits don't have physical eyes, but do they ever come into God's presence before being cast away? [/quote] Yeah, at the moment of judgment. [quote]This is me talking, but I would guess that a condemned soul totally absent from God wouldn't know of God to call on him anymore. I'm also guess that the torments of hell are so great, that those torments would probably keep your attention totally occupied.[/quote] In hell everyone hates God, as well as everything else and everybody else. So really, they have no desire to repent, and once a soul reaches hell they're locked in that mode. As I've heard it said, the doors to hell are locked on the inside, so to speak.
Socrates Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Humans can only repent and change while they are in time (in this life). After death, the soul is in eternity, and cannot change. This is why the angels cannot repent. They are in aeveternity (outside of temporal time) and cannot change their will. (I know - this is confusing!) Bottom line is, once your life on this earth is through, it's too late to turn back! And any "lost books" of the Bible are not actually part of the Bible, and often contain evil and heretical ideas. You'd best ignore them. (See Don John's post.)
Apotheoun Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='Balthazor' date='Nov 26 2004, 09:30 PM'] Such as cold is just the abscence of heat, isn't hell just the absence of God? [/quote] God is omnipresent.
SirMyztiq Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Delivery Boy' date='Nov 26 2004, 05:54 PM'] i was watchen the history channel the other night they were haveing a show about missing books from the bible in one of these books, it is revealed that after souls suffer in hell, they will be taken out and let into Heaven.......I almost hope this is true becuz i think it would smell of elderberries for a soul to have to suffer in hell for eternity.......And I want to believe that a all loveing God would in the very end have mercy on all the souls that he made to exist...and since God has the power to do anything, he is capable of doing this if he so desired....so will God have mercy on all, when its all said and done ? [/quote] Those books are books that the people who put together the Bible saw and said: "carp, we can't have people under control without this" And threw them out. And now people see them and say "well that makes Jesus sound almost human" and then the pastors say "NO, those are for heretics" Actually alot of those books were also burned. Who knows what other stuff the Church tried to hide. And now... God created evil. Because as we all know God knows and sees everything. Surely he saw his prime angel becoming evil. And when he punished him he created hell. So was hell in his plan all along? Was evil also in his plan? If he is so good then why would he create evil? Edited November 29, 2004 by SirMyztiq
cmotherofpirl Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 If we HAD burned hem, they wouldn't be around, now would they? God did not create evil, evil occurred because we have free will. Without free will we would be merely robots, not human beings.
Socrates Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 29 2004, 03:44 AM'] Those books are books that the people who put together the Bible saw and said: "carp, we can't have people under control without this" And threw them out. And now people see them and say "well that makes Jesus sound almost human" and then the pastors say "NO, those are for heretics" Actually alot of those books were also burned. Who knows what other stuff the Church tried to hide. And now... God created evil. Because as we all know God knows and sees everything. Surely he saw his prime angel becoming evil. And when he punished him he created hell. So was hell in his plan all along? Was evil also in his plan? If he is so good then why would he create evil? [/quote] This post is pure nonsense. It is nothing but assertions made with zero evidence. (And it's remarkable how SirMiztaken is able to know so much about the intentions of people almost 2000 years ago!) In fact, (though theological liberals hate to admit it), recent archeological evidence shows copies of the original gospels much older than the phony gnostic "gospels," which were written centuries later by heretical sects to promote their beliefs.
HomeTeamFamily Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 it is important to remember that not only is God all merciful, but He is also all just......so if at the moment of judgement, God has determined in His omnisence (all knowing)....that a person had adequate opportunity to accept God and rejected it, then i would think that that person does not deserve Heaven....as they have seen the face of God and rejected it the punishment will fit the crime so to speak
SirMyztiq Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 29 2004, 03:31 PM'] This post is pure nonsense. It is nothing but assertions made with zero evidence. (And it's remarkable how SirMiztaken is able to know so much about the intentions of people almost 2000 years ago!) In fact, (though theological liberals hate to admit it), recent archeological evidence shows copies of the original gospels much older than the phony gnostic "gospels," which were written centuries later by heretical sects to promote their beliefs. [/quote] Actually I heard this from an actual preacher! Now I don't know about you but I think she knows her stuff...being a preacher and all. The Bible was put together by a king-whos name I'll ask-and some of his people when the pagans and the Christians were heavily divided. When he did so many of the pagan symbolism became part of the Christian symbolism and the Bible was able to bring the two together. Christmas was created in order to attract-or distract-pagans from their festivals. MANY books were burned. I didn't say all. Recent archeological evidence huh... Funny how some you believe and some you don't. Archeological evidence shows dinosaurs much older than 1000 years old. It shows that the continents were once one clump of land. It shows proof of evolution from cell. It shows proof of how the moon came to be. And the list goes on...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 30 2004, 02:41 AM'] Actually I heard this from an actual preacher! Now I don't know about you but I think she knows her stuff...being a preacher and all. The Bible was put together by a king-whos name I'll ask-and some of his people when the pagans and the Christians were heavily divided. When he did so many of the pagan symbolism became part of the Christian symbolism and the Bible was able to bring the two together. Christmas was created in order to attract-or distract-pagans from their festivals. MANY books were burned. I didn't say all. Recent archeological evidence huh... Funny how some you believe and some you don't. Archeological evidence shows dinosaurs much older than 1000 years old. It shows that the continents were once one clump of land. It shows proof of evolution from cell. It shows proof of how the moon came to be. And the list goes on... [/quote] For someone so well read you have it so very wrong.
cmotherofpirl Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 (edited) [quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 30 2004, 04:41 AM'] The Bible was put together by a king-whos name I'll ask-and some of his people when the pagans and the Christians were heavily divided. When he did so many of the pagan symbolism became part of the Christian symbolism and the Bible was able to bring the two together. Christmas was created in order to attract-or distract-pagans from their festivals. MANY books were burned. I didn't say all. Recent archeological evidence huh... Funny how some you believe and some you don't. Archeological evidence shows dinosaurs much older than 1000 years old. It shows that the continents were once one clump of land. It shows proof of evolution from cell. It shows proof of how the moon came to be. And the list goes on... [/quote] You are entertaining even when you are so wrong. THe Old Testament started to be put together back in the days of the exile. The New Testament dates back to before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. THe writings circulated and were read in the Churches as scripture. The canon [ list of books] was decided by Church Council in 497AD after the Church has been using them for hundreds of years. Humans have been in North America for 50,000 years. WEll of course the dinosaurs are over 1000 years old, why would you think overwise? [u]"Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes" 1987 [/u] Edited November 30, 2004 by cmotherofpirl
Socrates Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 (edited) [quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 30 2004, 02:41 AM'] Actually I heard this from an actual preacher! Now I don't know about you but I think she knows her stuff...being a preacher and all. The Bible was put together by a king-whos name I'll ask-and some of his people when the pagans and the Christians were heavily divided. When he did so many of the pagan symbolism became part of the Christian symbolism and the Bible was able to bring the two together. Christmas was created in order to attract-or distract-pagans from their festivals. MANY books were burned. I didn't say all. Recent archeological evidence huh... Funny how some you believe and some you don't. Archeological evidence shows dinosaurs much older than 1000 years old. It shows that the continents were once one clump of land. It shows proof of evolution from cell. It shows proof of how the moon came to be. And the list goes on... [/quote] More nonsense . . . You heard it from "some preacher." So what? I'm a Catholic. I don't beleive anything "some preacher" says. Preachers can say all kinds of crazy stuff. I've got history to back me up. I can get sources later if you like (too busy now.) Or ask Ironmonk, he could give you more sources of evidence than you can shake a stick at. You've still given no evidence. Dinosaurs and the like have nothing to do with my post. Stick to the subject. Edited November 30, 2004 by Socrates
Quietfire Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote]Actually alot of those books were also burned. Who knows what other stuff the Church tried to hide.[/quote] Which books specifically did the Church burn? Which books specifically did the Church 'hide'? I have a library, every book within is written either by me or by those who represent me, therefore, they are mine. My possession, my ownership, my copyright, my everlasting patent. You have no legal or sentimental right to them. Who are you to tell me which I keep and which I give to you? Such arrogance.
Socrates Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Nov 30 2004, 02:41 AM'] The Bible was put together by a king-whos name I'll ask-and some of his people when the pagans and the Christians were heavily divided. When he did so many of the pagan symbolism became part of the Christian symbolism and the Bible was able to bring the two together. Christmas was created in order to attract-or distract-pagans from their festivals. [/quote] Did King Who's Name I'll Ask rule the Whatever People in the Land of Wherever? "Better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and let the world know you are a fool." In 393, the bishops of Africa held a synod in Hippo Regius which drew up the complete canon of books in the Bible. Pope Innocent gave this confirmation of this list in 403. Later this list would be officially codified. However, the four gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John had been accepted by the Church since the first century, when they were written. In the 4th century, heretical "gnostic gospels" appeared, promoted by heretical gnostic sects, and these never officially recognized by the Christian Church. They were consistently rejected by Church counsels. There is absolutely zero evidence that these gnostic "gospels" came before the gospels accepted as part of the Bible.
mulls Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 30 2004, 09:09 AM'] [u]"Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes" 1987 [/u] [/quote] wow, who's that quote from?
Guest Aluigi Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 (edited) documents that were burned from that time period were actually burned by barbarian invasions of rome and persecutions. it was not a common practice of the early Church. Edited November 30, 2004 by Aluigi
CatholicCrusader Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Nov 29 2004, 02:54 AM'] God is omnipresent. [/quote] Are you saying the damned experience God?
Guest JeffCR07 Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 [quote]Are you saying the damned experience God?[/quote] I believe what Todd was saying is that God is Omnipresent. Remember a few things and it will makes sense: 1.) We exist only on account of God's Will. If God stops willing our existence, then our existence will stop. 2.) Souls exist in Hell 3.) Therefore God's Will is present in Hell Just because God's Will (and thus God Himself) is present in Hell does not mean that the damned "experience" God. It can be a sunny and bright day all around you, but if you are blind then you will not experience the light. - Your Brother In Christ, Jeff
SirMyztiq Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Actually she is my music history teacher. Who happens to be a Baptist pastor-uh oh A PROTESTANT! And history backs her up. It's in the book. It's in her research.
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