Cure of Ars Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 What is Freedom? Is it the ability to do what you want? Or is there no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. I think as a culture we always talke about freedom but we have lost it's true meaning. God bless
traichuoi Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 you can find this in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will one shapes one's own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude. 1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach. 1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28 1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts. Man i love the catechism!
Aloysius Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 the Truth will set you free ........ does that help?
Don John of Austria Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 " freedom is just another word for nothing less to left to loose."
Schmandi Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 (edited) I think that freedom is the ability to choose good. Freedom is not just the mere fact of being able to choose between good and evil, but I am free because I can choose good...I can choose God. "Freedom is responsibility, that is, to respond to Another." "Freedom is the capacity for the Infinite, the thirst for God. Freedom, then, is love, because it is the capacity for something that is not of us: it is Another." ~Msgr. Luigi Guissani No one has ever explained freedom better to me than through the works of Luigi Guissani. I'll try to read more on it and get back to you if you want. Edited October 15, 2003 by Schmandi
Cure of Ars Posted October 15, 2003 Author Posted October 15, 2003 I think that freedom is the ability to choose good. Freedom is not just the mere fact of being able to choose between good and evil, but I am free because I can choose good...I can choose God. "Freedom is responsibility, that is, to respond to Another." "Freedom is the capacity for the Infinite, the thirst for God. Freedom, then, is love, because it is the capacity for something that is not of us: it is Another." ~Msgr. Luigi Guissani No one has ever explained freedom better to me than through the works of Luigi Guissani. I'll try to read more on it and get back to you if you want. freedom is the ability to choose good I agree with this statement.
emalouhow Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Rock on Schmandi! Kudos to Guissani!!! Want more? "During man's lifetime, freedom's entire goal is not attainable. Freedom is becoming. The objects freedom encounters are not only anticipations, reverberations, of the end. The more intese the life of freedom, the more attractive are things of any kind. But since no object is adequate to freedom's openness, it is never fully engaged. Here lies the possibility for freedom to make its choices when it is still not fully itself, because it is engaged by inadequate attractions. Now either freedom manages to approach its end or, since it strives inexorable to attain what satisfies it the most, it stops at whatever fulfills it at a gvien moment, and in this way, it contradicts itself because it is made for completeness. This contradiction is equivalent to the concept of evil. Whoever does evil renders himself a slave to a measure that is not the one for which he has been created. Summarizing what the Christian inheritence teaches about the value of freedom, we can say that freedom is the capacity the conscious being possesses for complete self-realization. The course which this energy takes towards integral realization is set in motion by 'things,' or created beings, which, although, in a sense, contain a little of the final goal (a little of being), they have the power to attract, to solicit freedom because they represent a foretaste of partial realization. In grasping things, however, freedom is not wholly fulfilled. The attraction of things does not totally engage it. And so arises the possibility of choice. THIS IS FREEDOM, albeit imperfect, on its way to realization. There may be realities which, to the free conscience appear to possess psychologically stronger attractions than others which, in an ontological sense, are closer to the final goal. Thus, man feels 'tempted,' more attracted to whatever is farthest from his ultimate interest. This, therefore, places him in contradiction with himself; if he does not resist the temptation, his choice is 'evil.' Normally, man alone cannot resist temptation for long. Jesus Christ is the being who will continually give him back the power to choose well-to be free: 'If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth and the truth will make you free' (John 8:31)." ~Guissani I hope this helps!
Cure of Ars Posted October 15, 2003 Author Posted October 15, 2003 " freedom is just another word for nothing less to left to loose." Like giving up everything to God?
emalouhow Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 So in other words...no, freedom is not just the ability to do what you want. When we choose things that are not good, are not of God, we actually contradict our freedom because when we do not choose God we are choosing that for which we are not made. We are choosing that which is not our destiny.
Cure of Ars Posted October 15, 2003 Author Posted October 15, 2003 So in other words...no, freedom is not just the ability to do what you want. When we choose things that are not good, are not of God, we actually contradict our freedom because when we do not choose God we are choosing that for which we are not made. We are choosing that which is not our destiny. I agree with this but I think our society does not believe this. We definity do not teach our children this in school.
ironmonk Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 What is Freedom? Is it the ability to do what you want? Or is there no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. I think as a culture we always talke about freedom but we have lost it's true meaning. God bless Freedom is to be free from Sin, with Jesus Christ in His Church. Your Servant in Christ ironmonk
Schmandi Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 I agree with this but I think our society does not believe this. We definity do not teach our children this in school. You're absolutely right!!! We don't. I work in a Catholic school, and freedom is seen as nothing more than an excuse to do whatever you want. Freedom is to be free from Sin, with Jesus Christ in His Church. Are you saying that when I sin I am without freedom? This is a great regurgitation of the Catechism, but without a deeper understanding of "freedom," you can't apply it to your daily life.
ironmonk Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 You're absolutely right!!! We don't. I work in a Catholic school, and freedom is seen as nothing more than an excuse to do whatever you want. Are you saying that when I sin I am without freedom? This is a great regurgitation of the Catechism, but without a deeper understanding of "freedom," you can't apply it to your daily life. When you sin, you are a slave to sin. Christ came to free us from sin. God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk
ironmonk Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28 1739 Freedom and sin. Man's freedom is limited and fallible. In fact, man failed. He freely sinned. By refusing God's plan of love, he deceived himself and became a slave to sin. This first alienation engendered a multitude of others. From its outset, human history attests the wretchedness and oppression born of the human heart in consequence of the abuse of freedom. 1740 Threats to freedom. The exercise of freedom does not imply a right to say or do everything. It is false to maintain that man, "the subject of this freedom," is "an individual who is fully self-sufficient and whose finality is the satisfaction of his own interests in the enjoyment of earthly goods."33 Moreover, the economic, social, political, and cultural conditions that are needed for a just exercise of freedom are too often disregarded or violated. Such situations of blindness and injustice injure the moral life and involve the strong as well as the weak in the temptation to sin against charity. By deviating from the moral law man violates his own freedom, becomes imprisoned within himself, disrupts neighborly fellowship, and rebels against divine truth. God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk
Schmandi Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 So in other words...no, freedom is not just the ability to do what you want. When we choose things that are not good, are not of God, we actually contradict our freedom because when we do not choose God we are choosing that for which we are not made. We are choosing that which is not our destiny. Yes, when we sin we contradict our freedom...we become a slave to our sin. But we are not without freedom! We are still able to choose the good, God, even in though we have sinned. This is the beauty of Reconciliation. This is why freedom is God's greatest gift. Because through my freedom I find Him, I find my destiny.
ironmonk Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Yes, when we sin we contradict our freedom...we become a slave to our sin. But we are not without freedom! We are without freedom at the time of sins. We can gain our freedom again with reconcilation. If we are a slave to sin, we do not have freedom. True Freedom is to be free from all sin.... if we sin, we do not have true freedom.... 1712 In man, true freedom is an "outstanding manifestation of the divine image" (GS 17). Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk
Schmandi Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 (edited) I feel that you are reducing freedom to something less than what it really is. "Freedom is responsibility, that is, to respond to Another." "Freedom is the capacity for the Infinite, the thirst for God. Freedom, then, is love, because it is the capacity for something that is not of us: it is Another." ~Msgr. Luigi Guissani Freedom goes beyond whether you have it or you don't because freedom is a response to the Infinite. You cannot reduce it to a state of being free. I am free when I pursue the Infinite, when I respond to the Infinite, whether I've sinned or not. What Emalouhow put in her post was a clear definition to freedom in its fullest. I would like to propose that you read Guissani's At the Origin of the Christian Claim. I would really like to hear your judgement. Edited October 15, 2003 by Schmandi
Katholikos Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 I remember Bishop Fulton J. Sheen's example of freedom. Freedom is like the pendulum of a clock that is free to filfill the purpose and destiny for which it was created, provided it is attached firmly in its rightful place. If we are firmly fixed on God and His Church, we are free to fulfill the purpose and destiny for which we are created. All other "freedom" is license and leads to death of the soul.
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