Micheal5403 Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 I had to ask . Please reply and explain.
Krush2k2 Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 a vote for kerry over Bush would have been a vote FOR abortion which [u]intentionally[/u] takes lives of the innocent-whereas the war does not, its to defend and in the long run make the world more safer.
Micheal5403 Posted November 30, 2004 Author Posted November 30, 2004 I'm asking about Bush in general, not whether Kerry was worse.(I already knew that)
popestpiusx Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 I voted for Peroutka. The Holy Father's opinion on the war is just that, an opinion. One is not bound to hold the same opinion merely because the Holy Father said it was so. Now had he outright condemned it and forbade Catholics from taking part, that would have been a different story. But he did not.
Fool4Christ Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 Some people might have used that as their excuse, but it's a really lame one. Nuff said.
Don John of Austria Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote]Some people might have used that as their excuse, but it's a really lame one. Nuff said. [/quote] Whats lame? I don't see an excuse here I see Catholic teaching onthe position of the Pope, the Pope could have ORDERED catholics not to involve themselves in anyway but he did not... if he had then we would have been bound to obey, but agian he did not he gave a personal opinion as a bishop and as a King but he did not use his Authority as a King and by choosing not to do so he allowed dissent on the subject... that is straight Catholic traditional tesaching on the office of the Papacy.
Balthazor Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 As I see it it was a horse a piece....niether of these men where ideal in any way. ..... I rememer reading about when the Pope sent a man out to discuss the war in Iraq with the President. The Pres. sidetracked and quickly deferred to his stand on abortion......I believe the delegate just said that wasn't what he was sent to talk about.
Guest Aluigi Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 (edited) the popes opposition to the war I believe was wrong. Church Teaching does not require me to think he was right. It does, however, requires me to think abortion is always and everywhere evil. Edited November 30, 2004 by Aluigi
ironmonk Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 First off, Bush is going to have access to intelligence that the Pope does not have access to. Second, This is irrelevant because Kerry supported the war, therefore anyone who would use the war against Bush and for Kerry is a fool. Third, the Pope is right in faith and morals. This falls under discipline, and when looking at what the Catechism says, Bush had every right to go to war. He has responsibility for the greater good. Fourth, the Pope prefered Bush over Kerry. Fifth, the people of Iraq are better off today than before the war. That whole region is better off today before the war. Less people are dying now than when Saddam was in power. Oh I how pray and wish that people would learn to think and understand proportionate reason. I wish some people here would read what the Bishops wrote on how we should vote. None of it fits Kerry and his party. God Bless, ironmonk
homeschoolmom Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 29 2004, 11:39 PM'] I voted for Peroutka. [/quote] PSPX, would your vote have changed if you lived in a battleground state? Just courious...
burnsspivey Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='Krush2k2' date='Nov 29 2004, 11:22 PM'] a vote for kerry over Bush would have been a vote FOR abortion which [u]intentionally[/u] takes lives of the innocent-whereas the war does not, its to defend and in the long run make the world more safer. [/quote] Please explain to me how war does not intentionally take life.
Colleen Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='burnsspivey' date='Nov 30 2004, 02:18 PM']Please explain to me how war does not intentionally take life.[/quote] Krush didn't say that. He said [quote name='Krush2k2 @ Nov 29 2004' date=' 11:22 PM']abortion which intentionally takes lives of the [b]innocent[/b]-whereas the war does not[/quote] War takes life. War should not intentionally take [i]innocent[/i] life, although sadly, sometimes it does happen. Abortion [i]always[/i] takes the lives of the innocent.
ironmonk Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 (edited) [quote name='burnsspivey' date='Nov 30 2004, 04:18 PM'] Please explain to me how war does not intentionally take life. [/quote] The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. over 840,000 abortions since June (4000 per day) > 1,121 US deaths in Iraq since June([url="http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/1104/30casualties.html"]source[/url]) Lives are lost in Iraq due to terrorists. If the terrorist did not attack our troops, no one would be getting killed. No one who voted for Kerry knows much about Christ. Not to mention... kerry supported the war, so anyone who used the war as a reason against Bush was foolish. God Bless, ironmonk Edited November 30, 2004 by ironmonk
burnsspivey Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 30 2004, 02:49 PM'] No one who voted for Kerry knows much about Christ. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] Shall I assume that this was directed at me? It's a bit asinine to say such a thing based on one comment, isn't it?
ironmonk Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='burnsspivey' date='Nov 30 2004, 04:52 PM'] Shall I assume that this was directed at me? It's a bit asinine to say such a thing based on one comment, isn't it? [/quote] I believe it was pretty straight forward... It's directed at anyone who voted for Kerry. Narcissism is not a good thing to have. The statement was not asinine at all... the statement is true. God Bless, ironmonk
CatholicCrusader Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 I didn't vote, since the reason given was wrong. A vote for Bush is not a vote in line with the Church. He supports divorice, contracpetion, separation of Church and State, embroytic stem cell research (where they were already frozen), abortion for case of mother's health, rape, and incest, and he was not opposed to gay unions... a vote for Bush was not a Catholic option. I am not really sure of the war... I have heard it was based around the pro-Isreal, pro-Jewish agenda pushed by Bush and all American Presidents. I have not researched that, but it did come from a respectable source... but Bush was not a viable candidate for the Catholic voter, if that is the question.
burnsspivey Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 30 2004, 02:56 PM'] I believe it was pretty straight forward... It's directed at anyone who voted for Kerry. Narcissism is not a good thing to have. The statement was not asinine at all... the statement is true. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] Ah, well since it's directed at everyone who voted for Kerry you are, quite simply, wrong. There are many who voted for Kerry who know much about Jesus. Knowing a lot about him doesn't necessarily make a person christian, though. Blanket statements are rarely a good idea, friend.
ironmonk Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='burnsspivey' date='Nov 30 2004, 06:37 PM'] Ah, well since it's directed at everyone who voted for Kerry you are, quite simply, wrong. There are many who voted for Kerry who know much about Jesus. Knowing a lot about him doesn't necessarily make a person christian, though. Blanket statements are rarely a good idea, friend. [/quote] No it's not. People who are not Christian, know very little about Christ. To know a lot about Him requires one to follow Him. People who voted for Kerry know very little about Christ. To know Christ is to Love Christ, to follow His ways, and know His teachings... a vote for Kerry proves that a person does not know Christ very well at all. God Bless, ironmonk
burnsspivey Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 30 2004, 04:46 PM'] No it's not. People who are not Christian, know very little about Christ. To know a lot about Him requires one to follow Him. People who voted for Kerry know very little about Christ. To know Christ is to Love Christ, to follow His ways, and know His teachings... a vote for Kerry proves that a person does not know Christ very well at all. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] know: 1 a (1) : to perceive directly : have direct cognition of (2) : to have understanding of <importance of knowing oneself> (3) : to recognize the nature of : DISCERN b (1) : to recognize as being the same as something previously known (2) : to be acquainted or familiar with (3) : to have experience of 2 a : to be aware of the truth or factuality of : be convinced or certain of b : to have a practical understanding of <knows how to write> 3 archaic : to have sexual intercourse with intransitive senses 1 : to have knowledge 2 : to be or become cognizant -- sometimes used interjectionally with you especially as a filler in informal speech I'd say that the first two are applicable here. I know people who have most of 1 and at least 2b of Jesus and yet are not christian. If you use the word with an arbitrary definition the discussion falls apart.
ironmonk Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 [quote name='burnsspivey' date='Nov 30 2004, 07:20 PM'] know: 1 a (1) : to perceive directly : have direct cognition of (2) : to have understanding of <importance of knowing oneself> (3) : to recognize the nature of : DISCERN b (1) : to recognize as being the same as something previously known (2) : to be acquainted or familiar with (3) : to have experience of 2 a : to be aware of the truth or factuality of : be convinced or certain of b : to have a practical understanding of <knows how to write> 3 archaic : to have sexual intercourse with intransitive senses 1 : to have knowledge 2 : to be or become cognizant -- sometimes used interjectionally with you especially as a filler in informal speech I'd say that the first two are applicable here. I know people who have most of 1 and at least 2b of Jesus and yet are not christian. If you use the word with an arbitrary definition the discussion falls apart. [/quote] To know Christ is to know He is God. If people do not know He's God, then they do not Know Christ. No one in their right mind would deny Christ. You're wrong. God Bless, ironmonk
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