LIFETEEN

[Duc_In_Altum]

Just read the other lifeteen threads. Chances are, it's all already been said bout it. This is a volcano starting to erupt. Let the dead horse be.


God bless,

-Joe

[rachael]

[quote name='Oik' date='Nov 30 2004, 09:41 PM'] There doesn't need to be any arguing on this matter. It is resolved. Be part of the solution! [/quote]
i try, but then everytime i try to back up my point, someone tells me im completly wrong. how is that not arguing?

[UTColumbus]

Tell you the truth, I really don't see what some of you mean when you say that Life Teen takes away from the Eucharist. One of the most profound experiences in my life was attending a Steubenville youth conference, which culminated in the keynote event of the weekend: adoration. My signature comes from a Lifeteen wallpaper. Could someone please elaborate what they mean about Lifeteen not focusing on the Eucharist?

I think the perception of focus on the teens isn't from within Lifeteen itself, but from without, from people whoa re genuinely suprised that teens can feel this way about Catholicism. Sure, I'm not quite comfortable with all aspects of a Lifeteen mass, but to see teens celebrating at mass and to be part of a Christian community containing people your own age is a great experience that I think Catholic teens had been missing out on compared to some of our Protestant brothers and sisters. Granted, some teens could be there just because it's fashionable, but that's bound to be the case with adults as well.

I mean, Lifeteen helped me grow as a Catholic and led toward some of the deeper meanings of the faith that otehrwise I may have never come to realize. I can't be the only one!

[Duc_In_Altum]

[quote]I mean, Lifeteen helped me grow as a Catholic and led toward some of the deeper meanings of the faith that otehrwise I may have never come to realize. I can't be the only one! [/quote]


You most certainly arent the only one, UT. Sorry, but I think too many of us here are exhausted from the last Lifeteen debate. Don't worry, though. These things are a dime a dozen round here. Wait for one to pop up in a couple months. I'm sure more peeps will have energy to debate then. Welcome to Phatmass, anyway!!


Blessed be God,

-Joe

[HomeTeamFamily]

ok....seriously.....this has been done way too much....enough is enough....can we get a mod up in here?

[UTColumbus]

[quote name='VoloHumilisEsse' date='Dec 1 2004, 12:14 AM'] ok....seriously.....this has been done way too much....enough is enough....can we get a mod up in here? [/quote]
Well it's a pretty interesting topic....if newbs like me want to talk about it and some people have mroe to say...what's the problem? If you don't care about the topic, feel free to pass.

[HomeTeamFamily]

in the past 6 months

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=24733&hl=lifeteen"]One[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=20882&hl=lifeteen"]Two[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=20869&hl=lifeteen"]Three[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=21559&hl=lifeteen"]Four[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=15219&hl=lifeteen"]Five[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=15178&hl=lifeteen"]Six[/url]

that was in open mic alone.....need any more?

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='VoloHumilisEsse' date='Dec 1 2004, 01:14 AM'] ok....seriously.....this has been done way too much....enough is enough....can we get a mod up in here? [/quote]
you don't have to click on the topic if you think it will frustrate you. we do have an influx of new people, and plenty of people are willing to discuss an old topic and provide the products of the last time the discussion came about.

[UTColumbus]

[quote name='VoloHumilisEsse' date='Dec 1 2004, 12:20 AM'] in the past 6 months

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=24733&hl=lifeteen"]One[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=20882&hl=lifeteen"]Two[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=20869&hl=lifeteen"]Three[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=21559&hl=lifeteen"]Four[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=15219&hl=lifeteen"]Five[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=15178&hl=lifeteen"]Six[/url]

that was in open mic alone.....need any more? [/quote]
then make it a pinned topic so we can condense it in one thread and this subject will be moot

[AngelofJesus]

Ok! I'm back. Looks like we've been massacred by an influx of Lifeteen bashings.
I leave for a few hours and BAM! we get slammed...:angry:

Ok, time to leave again... Be back later

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='VoloHumilisEsse' date='Dec 1 2004, 02:14 AM'] ok....seriously.....this has been done way too much....enough is enough....can we get a mod up in here? [/quote]
But all the newbies missed that discussion.

[toledo_jesus]

people who are in LIFETEEN are way to sensitive to criticism of the organization. It's not the Catholic Church, it's a ministry within and subject to the foibles of its organizers. Maybe your LIFETEEN program is cool but when it comes to screwing up the Mass, people get very long memories. LIFETEEN would have to be spotless in all its different parishes to remove the stain of its past indiscretions. From what I hear there may be ministers who are not doing this, indicating that the program does not encourage loyalty to the Magisterium. It's a valid concern and something that every responsible teen should evaluate about the program before trying to stifle any discussion about it.

[PennyLane]

Lifeteen in a more Orthodox area might be okay... It's different in every Parish!

Another point though, Lifeteen isn't what really brought you closer to God. You did that yourself.

Let me just tell you, there is a higher percentage of kids going to church now then there has been in awhile. And I don't think it has to do with Lifeteen.

Although, I must say this, thanks to this phorum we're all becoming educated and It's amazing to see that so many young people are posting and are passionate about the religion. It's really incredible. It proves that we can make a difference...

Please pray for vocations as well.

Some of you should look into it too

[AngelofJesus]

[quote name='PennyLane' date='Nov 30 2004, 07:27 PM']The whole purpose of the Mass is Eucharist.

Lifeteen takes away from the Eucharist.

Instead of centering the Mass on God, it centers the mass on the teens or the individuals who partake in it.

No matter what anyone says, the POPE and the VATICAN have not approved Lifeteen.  They will recognize it if the Mass had made the list of changes to take place. I've been to two lifeteen masses (and yes I know, only 2 out of a lot) but they had not made the changes yet and I even asked a core team member and they said that they were not PLANNING on making the changes.

Some people have even gone as far as saying that the sacrament at Lifeteen isn't valid. Those words DID NOT come out of my mouth but of others.

We need to get the youth involved with Church but Lifeteen is NOT the way to do it. People like Bible Geek and the actual Lifeteen website help out a lot!

Another point, I don't know if any of the other parishes have Life nights, but Life nights have given a little too much freedom to the teens. Why? Again, this is only my experience with a couple churches but they do not teach the lesson of homosexuality or about abortion. They let the teens think whatever they would like about homosexuality and abortion. Two important teachings that I think are important to hit! If they don't learn it now, it'll be harder to learn about in the future!

Why else? Where are the teachings about the Saints and about Mary? Through the Lifeteen program, I received my confirmation. I chose Saint Maria Goretti. Was I required to know anything about her? No.  Was I required anything at my Confirmation? No. All I had was PRIESTS CONFIRMING (which isn't correct) and a guy basically singing taking the attention away from what was really going on.

I'm sorry if you think my views are twisted and/or corrupt. I would have NO problem with Lifeteen if they actually did the MASS CORRECTLY.  When I have time, I will personally give you proof of what it does! 

I'm also sorry if my "personal" experiences aren't what it's really like... but I do know people that go to Lifeteen in other states as in New Jersey, and so far I here that the program is very similar!

Thank you. Sorry if I seem angry or short.

God bless.


By the way, to clear up confusion... the Mass isn't suppose to be for the people, it's suppose to be for GOD. That is why Priests use to say the Mass in Latin with his back to the people...[/quote]
How in the world do you propose Lifeteen takes away from the Eucharist and how is it centered on the individuals? The GIRM is followed, the only other thing is the music. Gregorian chant is the prescribed method of singing in mass. Do you guys have that? If not then is your church centered on the Eucharist?

When you say approved by the Vatican do you mean if Lifeteen is endorsed for teens? Vatican will never endorse any one particular method for reaching out to teens. The Vatican has officially recognized Lifeteen and that we are to follow the GIRM.
One core member making that remark of not following the GIRM does not mean all Lifeteen programs do not follow it. The founder of Lifeteen has ordered all Lifeteen programs to follow the GIRM.

"We need to get the youth involved with Church but Lifeteen is NOT the way to do it. People like Bible Geek and the actual Lifeteen website help out a lot!"

Contradicting yourself there you think? Lifeteen is NOT the way to do it, with a bold NOT to emphasize no way, no how. But BibleGeek and Lifeteen website helps? Hmm....


"Another point, I don't know if any of the other parishes have Life nights, but Life nights have given a little too much freedom to the teens. Why? Again, this is only my experience with a couple churches but they do not teach the lesson of homosexuality or about abortion. They let the teens think whatever they would like about homosexuality and abortion. Two important teachings that I think are important to hit! If they don't learn it now, it'll be harder to learn about in the future!"

Lifeteen does not pretend to be the be all and end all of every issue. It is merely a vehicle to bring teens closer to Christ. I'm sorry that your lifeteen programs were not good, but I don't think it gives you the right to bash lifeteen in general. If the program can keep at least 1 kid off the street then lifeteen has succeeded, because Jesus will use or do whatever and not spare any means to get 1 person back.



"By the way, to clear up confusion... the Mass isn't suppose to be for the people, it's suppose to be for GOD. That is why Priests use to say the Mass in Latin with his back to the people..."

To clear up confusion, lifeteen follows the GIRM. Lifeteen brings teens closer to Christ, not Christ closer to teens. Again, I do not know where you are getting the idea of lifeteen making the mass for the people and not for God. Maybe, you should check out our lifeteen program. And maybe in the future you can address your experiences as your experience and not seem like your the head of "Catholics against Lifeteen" (CAL). <--[i]It's not really an org.[/i]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Nov 30 2004, 01:57 PM'] That way you can spread the gospel creatively -- and feed the soul sacredly.

[/quote]
i love that!

[AngelofJesus]

I'm not just for Lifeteen though. I am also 100% on the Phatmass phormula or just regular youth ministry.

[Scofizzle]

[quote]there is no official vatican endorsement of LIFETEEN that I am aware[/quote]

LIFETEEN has been recognized as a Private Association of the Lay Faithful in the US and Canada by the Vatican.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Scofizzle' date='Dec 1 2004, 03:41 PM']
LIFETEEN has been recognized as a Private Association of the Lay Faithful in the US and Canada by the Vatican. [/quote]
recognition is not endorsement.

[Scofizzle]

I just wanted to post this it may help clear up some things it may not, I will ensure you that LIFETEEN is not an evil thing. It is a good thing and those who say it is a bad or evil things are obviously not looking into its fruits or the hard working folks who are in charge all over the world.

This is the letter that was realeased by Fr. Dale to all LIFETEEN parishes this summer.

July, 2004

On June 4, 2004, the Bishop of Phoenix, Most Rev. Thomas J. Olmsted, met in Rome with Francis Cardinal Arinze regarding LIFE TEEN. His Eminence Cardinal Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation of Divine Worship, stated his support for LIFE TEEN and said he was "heartened to see that dedicated persons have taken initiative to promote the liturgy especially since, in various parts of the world, a disaffection for the Mass is found among young people". [b]The Cardinal was very supportive of LIFE TEEN and encouraged our mission to continue[/b]. However, he also believed that LIFE TEEN needs to fully implement the new General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM).

In addition to his meeting with Cardinal Arinze, Bishop Olmsted met with Monsignor James Moroney, executive director of the United States Bishop's Committee on the Liturgy (BCL) regarding LIFE TEEN. Msgr. Moroney has been in dialogue with LIFE TEEN regarding implementation of the new GIRM.

As the founder of this youth movement, I am writing to confirm our adherence to the new GIRM, and as always, our obedience to our own local Bishops. In this spirit of obedience, we are asking all parishes using the LIFE TEEN model to make the following changes:

In accordance with the new GIRM, teens are no longer to enter the sanctuary for the Eucharistic prayer. Being in the sanctuary is reserved for the priest celebrant, concelebrants, and those performing a specific ministry.
The GIRM very specifically offers three options for the end of the Mass. We are to cease using the phrase "The Mass Never Ends, It Must Be Lived" and begin using one of the three prescribed endings found in the Missal.
After music practice or welcoming, please make sure there is a period of silence to begin the liturgical celebration.
As we have always taught, please make sure the music does not in any way detract from the action at the altar, ambo, or chair.
Please make sure that full implementation of the GIRM is done in accordance with your Diocese and accomplished with a spirit of joy.
Although these changes may be difficult for some parishes and teens to accept, let me assure you that our cooperation with Rome and the BCL will only enhance our liturgical celebrations and our mission in the Church. It will be essential that we catechize our teens and their families on what we are doing, and why we are doing it.

All parishes involved with LIFE TEEN will receive a short video by the beginning of August to be used to introduce these changes. We will assist you in any way possible to make a smooth and grace-filled transition. We are asking for catechesis and full implementation of these changes by October 1, 2004. As you know, October has been chosen by the Holy Father to begin the year of the Eucharist. This is an exciting time for us to focus on the real presence and to call our teens to a deeper faith in the Church and in the sacraments.

The heart of LIFE TEEN is the Eucharist. Full, conscious, and active participation of our youth remains to be our goal. Dynamic preaching, spirit filled music, and the conversion of young people remain our hallmark. The commitment of LIFE TEEN to evangelize our youth and to call them to Christ is stronger than ever. We will work for vocations. Our Holy Father John Paul II remains our role model. Our Blessed Mother remains our patron.

Thank you for the love you have for our youth and LIFE TEEN. We are growing and this can be seen in our new national headquarters, in our camps in Atlanta and Arizona, as well as in our local parish programs. We are also working hard on the official status of LIFE TEEN as a private association of the Christian Faithful, in favor with the Apostolic See of the Catholic Church; bright days are ahead for us all.

We thank Cardinal Arinze, Bishop Olmsted, and Msgr. Moroney. They have clearly laid out a path for us, and we will follow it with enthusiasm and faith.

In Christ,


Msgr. Dale J. Fushek and the staff of LIFE TEEN

Edited December 1, 2004 by Scofizzle

[kateri05]

I know some have expressed frustration over talking this to death (i've been reading through the old threads) but i agree with cmom, that people missed those so... my 2 cents
im a youth minister at a LIFETEEN parish (they are real anal about you capitalizing it for reasons i don't know). i started here about 3 months ago and had no LIFETEEN experience prior to this job. i've gone to their basic training program in AZ and have done a lot of research and first I would like to say that the program has 3 characterisitics (according to the mission statement):
1. Special Devotion to the Eucharist
2. Special Devotion to the Blessed Mother
3. Openness to the Charisms of the Holy Spirit

basically, its a low-level charasmatic movement that caters to youth through relational ministry. Relational ministry is great. it should be the focus of ALL youth programs BUT the focus on "charisms," where things like the differences in the Teen Mass come from, leads to 2 problems from my limited experience:

1. what about teens who aren't into charasmatic-ness?
i didn't (and still don't) really like charismatic Mass/prayer/etc. sometimes its a cool experience, but its not my thing fpr all the time. i'm not saying its wrong or anything, but a youth program has to meet the needs of all youth, not just the ones who like clapping and flashy Mass.

2. it has HIGH potential for abuses
evidence: the altar business, which for the record, is NOT cleared up yet, because there are dioceses in which the cardinal has said that you CAN go around the altar if you want to and its not LIFETEENs job to say otherwise (ie, MY diocese). but other things, like "fun" music and skits during mass on the altar and crazy handholding during the Our Father and handmotions in Mass that become more important than a true spirit of reverence and fear of the Lord.
this doens't mean that abuses HAVE to happen. just that theres a lot more room FOR them to happen because of the focus on reaching out to the "culture" of the teens. which makes orthodox youth ministers frustrated sometimes

also, i've noticed that LIFETEEN participants/proponents seem to think (and i'm not accusing anyone in the pham of this, just from my experience) that if its not LT then its not real or not good or not effective youth ministry. which is utter carp as i came from a nonLT youth program and look at me now youth ministering it up!

however, LT is really good in some respects, ESPECIALLY the variety of resources available for planning LIFENights, retreats, etc.

so, if I could have the Pope's ear for 2 seconds, what would i do? Make LIFETEEN (and heck the whole church!!) have abuse free Mass, with the right proportion of Gregorian, old music and new, reverent hymns with the right instruments (ie. NOT electric guitars) and have super cool, crazy fun everything else (outside Mass; not that Mass isn't supercool and fun... but you know what i mean!), so that teens and everyone, for that matter, would learn to have fun in their faith AND tohave the proper spirit of reverence, which, afterall, is a gift of the Spirit!, for 2000 of Catholic Liturgy and tradition.

oh wait. I'd just make everyone do what Phatmass already does!

and that is the 2 cents of a new LT youth minister. for what its worthh

Edited December 2, 2004 by kateri05