Praise and Worship (music) in Protestant realms

[Paladin D]

[b]NOTE:[/b] I'm in no way against praise and worship, it's a beautiful way to praise God.


Growing up in a charismatic (AoG/Pentecostal) atmosphere, praise and worship was viewed upon as one of the highest forms of worship. Miracles would happen, people moving in the Spirit, people speaking in tongues, etc. I also see this a lot in a lot in Protestant services (and on TBN).

I would say that praise and worship is edified more in Protestant services compared to a Catholic Mass, because they lack the Eucharist. Praise and worship is important, but how I grew up... praise and worship was the center piece of the whole experience, while we as Catholics... the Eucharist is.

Not bashing Protestants [b]at all[/b], just thought some of you would know what I'm talking about.

[homeschoolmom]

I know what you're talking about. No debate from me...

Although, a friend of my mentioned that the center of Protestant worship USED TO BE the sermon, but that it seems that P/W has moved center stage....

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Dec 1 2004, 06:20 PM'] [b]NOTE:[/b] I'm in no way against praise and worship, it's a beautiful way to praise God.


Growing up in a charismatic (AoG/Pentecostal) atmosphere, praise and worship was viewed upon as one of the highest forms of worship.  Miracles would happen, people moving in the Spirit, people speaking in tongues, etc.  I also see this a lot in a lot in Protestant services (and on TBN).

I would say that praise and worship is edified more in Protestant services compared to a Catholic Mass, because they lack the Eucharist.  Praise and worship is important, but how I grew up... praise and worship was the center piece of the whole experience, while we as Catholics... the Eucharist is.

Not bashing Protestants [b]at all[/b], just thought some of you would know what I'm talking about. [/quote]
Of course, from a Roman point of view, this all holds up. However, as an Anglican I still say that the focal point of our worship is the Eucharist, in which we renew our covenant with God. Rome likes to say that we don't have a valid Eucharist, however, as anyone with a cursory knowledge of the criterion by which the Pope condemned our orders as invalid knows, by the same criterion that Rome judges our orders invalid, she judges her own orders likewise.

Of course, the sermon is still important, and I wish more Roman Catholics would realize this. One of the things that irked me about my days as a Roman Catholic is that I was constantly [i]bored[/i] during the Liturgy of the Word. I was not challenged. The sermons were bland and taught me nothing about the Word of God that I didn't already know, nor did they challenge me to follow Christ in a deeper way (I found this extremely prevalent when I started attending a Cathedral parish - Fr. Shawn and Fr. Raymond at the University fellowship I attended were [i]excellent[/i] preachers - in fact, I'd consider them, along with the Most Rev. Archbishop of the diocese in which I live, the best Roman Catholic homilists I've ever heard in my life - but when the University students went home for the summer, there was no more Newman House mass, and thus, I had to go to the Cathedral) - where there were numerous different priests on staff, and a different preacher at every Mass.

Edited December 2, 2004 by ICTHUS

[homeschoolmom]

I think Paladin and I were both referring to "low" churches... non-liturgical types... Not liturgical churches...

[Paladin D]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 1 2004, 08:37 PM'] I think Paladin and I were both referring to "low" churches... non-liturgical types... Not liturgical churches... [/quote]
Yeah.

[Gal. 5:22,23]

Oh, no! I'm low!

Once again, it depends upon the Protestant church you attend. Most churches that I have been a part of are very sermon-centered. But I think with the popularity of contemporary Christian music, praise and worship time has become more important.

[Dreamweaver]

Thats partily one reason why I was so lukewarm in my faith when I was Lutheran. Especially at contemporary services, it seemed like the purpose of church was to entertain people on Sunday morning. Have a little rock concert, hand out wine and bread afterwards... And then I went to the Good Friday service at the cathedral. The focus on the Eucharist is what makes the Catholic church more spiritually fulfilling.

[Sojourner]

In my broad experience with Protestant churches, there tends to be a pretty even split in the service between praise and worship and sermon, typically somewhere around 45 minutes of each. Even churches that have been more liturgical in the past are tending towards this model. And, I think the music in a typical Protestant church is most definitely designed to manipulate the emotions and provide an exhilarating experience.

[aloha918]

i completely agree....protestants tend to look more one the feeling of faith compared to the day to day understanding of catholics.......

[Sojourner]

[quote name='aloha918' date='Dec 2 2004, 11:51 AM'] i completely agree....protestants tend to look more one the feeling of faith compared to the day to day understanding of catholics....... [/quote]
I found that Protestant churches tended toward one of two extremes -- either they were very theologically heavy, or very emotionally heavy. It's very rare to find a church that is offers any sort of balanced approach to faith.

That's one of the things that really attracted me to Catholicism -- I don't have to check either my brain or my emotions at the door when I go to worship. I get to worship God as a whole person.

[mulls]

[quote]I would say that praise and worship is edified more in Protestant services compared to a Catholic Mass, because they lack the Eucharist[/quote]

i agree, in general.


[quote]but how I grew up... praise and worship was the center piece of the whole experience[/quote]

well, worship should be the center piece, in a sense. your church here happened to use 'praise and worship' as its main worship, catholics use the eucharist as its main worship (you know what i mean, right?)

but i dont think this is the case of most non-catholic churches. maybe, impossible to tell.

[quote]Not bashing Protestants [b]at all[/b], just thought some of you would know what I'm talking about.[/quote]

gotcha.

[Paladin D]

Mulls is cool.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Dec 2 2004, 11:55 AM'] I found that Protestant churches tended toward one of two extremes -- either they were very theologically heavy, or very emotionally heavy. It's very rare to find a church that is offers any sort of balanced approach to faith.

That's one of the things that really attracted me to Catholicism -- I don't have to check either my brain or my emotions at the door when I go to worship. I get to worship God as a whole person. [/quote]
I have found that Anglicans, Lutherans, and Presbyterians especially emphasize the sermon (the latter two especially, and the third verymuch so) yet they attach great importance to the Lord's Supper as well. Spiritually as well as intellectually fulfilling.

[ICTHUS]

[quote]i agree, in general. [/quote] Mulls, you admit that your church does not celebrate the Lord's Supper? How sad[quote]....*subliminal message*leaveyourchurchandjoinananglicanorlutheranchurch*subliminalmessage*[/quote]

[quote]well, worship should be the center piece, in a sense. your church here happened to use 'praise and worship' as its main worship, catholics use the eucharist as its main worship (you know what i mean, right?)[/quote] Mulls, you are straying dangerously close to religious relativism here. I would caution you on this - our primary act of worshipping God is not a matter of 'different strokes for different folks' - in fact, I would be willing to biblically and historically defend the idea that the celebration of the Lord's Supper is the central part of the Christian worship service.

[mulls]

[quote] Mulls, you admit that your church does not celebrate the Lord's Supper? How sad[/quote]

no, that's not what i said at all. in fact, my church celebrates the Lord's Supper every week, and it is the culmination of our worship, and i LOVE it.

i was (sadly) agreeing with the generalization that most churches do not celebrate the Lord's Supper frequently, hence it is not an important part of their worship.

[quote]....*subliminal message*leaveyourchurchandjoinananglicanorlutheranchurch*subliminalmessage*[/quote]



[quote]Mulls, you are straying dangerously close to religious relativism here. I would caution you on this - our primary act of worshipping God is not a matter of 'different strokes for different folks' - in fact, I would be willing to biblically and historically defend the idea that the celebration of the Lord's Supper is the central part of the Christian worship service[/quote]

i wouldn't disagree. i hope my post above eases your conscience about my church. i appreciate the looking out though.

like i said, i was just agreeing with the broad, general statement that paladin made. i should have been specific as to where i was coming from.

Edited December 3, 2004 by mulls

[vianney]

ICTHUS,

So let me get this right. You left the Catholic Church becuase you didnt like some of the preachers??

I go to a school where the homilists are absolutely amazing. I go home for the summer and my parish priest gives homilies that, well, at times can be boring and not challenge me in my faith walk. BUT, I understand that no matter how simple the message I have to have humility of intellect and really listen to the priest.

The other problem I see with what you said was this; if you pick a church soley on how good the preachers are or who can give you the best "show." Are you really choosing the Anglican Church because you believe it holds the fullness of truth or because you think that it is more exciting and the the better show?

[ICTHUS]

[quote]ICTHUS,

So let me get this right. You left the Catholic Church becuase you didnt like some of the preachers?? [/quote] No. That's not it at all (well, it is one of the reasons, but its way, way down at the bottom of a very long list)

[quote]The other problem I see with what you said was this; if you pick a church soley on how good the preachers are or who can give you the best "show." Are you really choosing the Anglican Church because you believe it holds the fullness of truth or because you think that it is more exciting and the the better show?[/quote] I find your intimation that the administration of the Sacraments and the preaching of the Word of God with fervor (the latter, verymuch unlike the Church of Rome) is a mere 'show', incredibly offensive. Secondly, to say that we hold the 'fullness of truth' is arrogant. From what I've seen so far, the Church of England retains the administration of the sacraments of the Holy Gospel (Baptism and the Lord's Supper, the other five are not 'sacraments of the Holy Gospel' - at best, they are minor sacraments) and, for the most part, strong, orthodox preachers (with the exception of a few liberals whom, no doubt, the Lord will punish in His wrath when He returns), and as such, I believe the Church of England to be most correct (though no church on Earth is perfect) in matters of ecclesiolology, soteriology, and worship.

[cmotherofpirl]

So you think a church started by a guy who was mad he couldn't get a divorce is the right Church ???

A house built on sand does not last.

Edited December 6, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[reelguy227]

Good point cmp ,good point .

God Bless,
Ricky

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Dec 5 2004, 10:34 PM'] So you think a church started by a guy who was mad he couldn't get a divorce is the right Church ???

A house built on sand does not last. [/quote]
The Church of England has Christ as her head - as do all Churches of Christ - yes, the English Church had a rocky road to reformation (hey...alliteration!) but that doesn't make her any less a part of Christ's body.