Why was Jesus named Jesus and not...

[socalscout]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Dec 18 2004, 03:03 PM'] if the scripture gave the exact name for the messiah to be named, a bunch of Jewish parents hoping their kid would be the messiah would go mad namin their kids Emmanuel [/quote]
LOL.Yeah but how would that make a difference? Its not like God sat there with a baby name book deciding whether there were too many Emmanuels and then decided on Jesus. :-) There must be a reason.

Its really not that big of a deal. It was brought up at Bible study and no one could answer so I thought I would give it to you guys to ponder.

Edited December 18, 2004 by socalscout

[Quietfire]

My point is God IS with us. Thus the name (title-whatever) spoken to to Mary was a sign that God IS with us. It wasnt meant that she should call him by the name Emmanuel, exclusively. Like Ok, see your gonna get pregnant and God said call his kid Emmanuel.



shall concieve a child and his name shall be called Emmanuel.

That why I stated not to get tripped up on the words.
I am lousy at explaining this stuff...really.
It like...it was an announcement. Not a name.

Then Christ was born and was named Jesus, translated meaning 'Yahweh saves'.
So God is with us, yes. And now he will save us.(because he is here in the flesh)

Ahhh, maybe Im seeing this all wrong. Like I said, I am so lousy at explaining this stuff.

[luciana]

^^^nah, you explained it well. It's in agreement w/ the Fathers of the church. Check ou the post below.

From Newadvent .org online Catholic Encyclopedia:

Emmanuel

Emmanual (Septuagint Emmanouel; A.V., Immanuel) signifies "God with us" (Matthew 1:23), and is the name of the child predicted in Isaias 7:14: "Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel". The various views advanced as to the identity of the child cannot be fully explained and discussed here; the following observations must suffice:

* The child is not a merely ideal or metaphorical person, he cannot be identified with the regenerate people of Israel (Hoffmann), nor with religious faith (Porter), for "he shall eat butter and honey."
* The Prophet does not refer to a child in general, but points to an individual (cf. Boorda, Kuenen, W.R. Smith, Smend, Duhm, Cheyne. Marti); both text and context require this.
* The child is not a son of the Prophet Isaias (cf. Hitzig, Reuss); Isaias 8:1-4, shows that the Prophet's son has a name different from that Emmanuel.
* The child is not a son of Achaz (cf. Lagarde, McCurdy); for Ezechias did not possess the most essential characteristics of Emmanuel as described by Isaias.
[b]* The Emmanuel is the Messias foretold in the other prophecies of Isaias. In Isaias 8:8, Palestine is called the land of Emmanuel, though in other passage it is termed the land or the inheritance of Yahweh (Isaias 14:2, 25; 47:6; Osee 9:3; Jeremias 2:7; 12:14; etc), so that Emmanuel and Yahweh are identified. Again, in the Hebrew text of Isaias 8:9-10, the Prophet predicts the futility of all the enemies' schemes against Palestine, because of Emmanuel. In 9:6-7, the characteristics of the child Emmanuel are so clearly described that we can doubt no longer of his Messianic mission. The eleventh chapter pictures the Messianic blessings which the child Emmanuel will bring upon the earth. Moreover, St. Matthew (1:23) expressly identifies the Emmanuel with Jesus the Messias, and Christian tradition has constantly taught the same doctrine. [/b]

[b]The question why the Messias was called Emmanuel, or "God with us", admits of a double answer: the name is a pledge of Divine help and also a description of the nature of the Messias. King Achaz had not believed the Prophet's first promise of deliverance from his enemies, Rasin, King of Syria, and Phacee, King of Israel (Isaias 7:1-9). And when the Prophet tried a second time to restore his confidence, Achaz refused to ask for the sign which God was ready to grant in confirmation of the prophetic promise (7:10-12). The Prophet, therefore, forces, in a way, King Achaz to confide in God, showing that the Messias, the hope of Israel and the glory of the house of David, implies by his very name "Emmanuel", or "God with us", the Divine presence among his people. A number of the Fathers, e.g. St. Irenaeus, Lactantius, St. Epiphanius, St. Chrysostom, and Theodoret, regard the name "Emmanuel", not merely as a pledge of Divine assistance, but also as an expression of the mystery of the Incarnation by virtue of which the Messias will be "God with us" in very deed. [/b]

Edited December 18, 2004 by luciana

[luciana]

St. Matthew's gospel uses both:

Chapter1:

20 But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Spirit.
21 And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: 23 Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and which means "God is with us." and they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, God with us.

St. Luke Ch. 1:
31Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.32He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,33 and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."

The angel says He will be called Emmanuel, I guess in the way in St. Luke's account of the Angel Gabriel to Mary that he tells her He Will be called Son of the Most High--I guess a reference that Jesus is the Messiah, and will be be called so.
I n both angelic visits to st. joseph and the blessed mother we have the Angel saying " [b]you[/b] shall call his name Jesu" different I guess than "they".

See the New advent post above^^^

Edited December 18, 2004 by luciana

[socalscout]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Dec 18 2004, 03:18 PM'] My point is God IS with us.  Thus the name (title-whatever) spoken to  to Mary was a sign that God IS with us.  It wasnt meant that she should call him by the name Emmanuel, exclusively.  Like Ok, see your gonna get pregnant and God said call his kid Emmanuel.



shall concieve a child and his name shall be called Emmanuel.

That why I stated not to get tripped up on the words. 
I am lousy at explaining this stuff...really.
It like...it was an announcement.  Not a name.

Then Christ was born and was named Jesus, translated meaning 'Yahweh saves'. 
So God is with us, yes.  And now he will save us.(because he is here in the flesh)

Ahhh, maybe Im seeing this all wrong.  Like I said, I am so lousy at explaining this stuff. [/quote]
Ok you did very well explaining it. Correct me if I am wrong. The child Jesus will be called Emmanuel like saying the child Jesus will be "God with us".

Not really a title but not really a name. Maybe a moniker. Thanks

Edited December 18, 2004 by socalscout

[socalscout]

[quote name='luciana' date='Dec 18 2004, 03:50 PM'] St. Matthew's gospel uses both:

20 But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Spirit.
21 And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: 23 Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, God with us. [/quote]
That is what started the confusion. He looks like he is given two names that do not mean the same.

[luciana]

[quote name='luciana' date='Dec 18 2004, 04:50 PM'] ...
The angel says He will be called Emmanuel, I guess in the way in St. Luke's account of the Angel Gabriel to Mary that he tells her He Will be called Son of the Most High--I guess a reference that Jesus is the Messiah, and will be be called so.
I n both angelic visits to st. joseph and the blessed mother we have the Angel saying " [b]you[/b] shall call his name Jesu" different I guess than "they".

See the New advent post above^^^ [/quote]
^^ok, just comparing the two gospel accounts.

[Quietfire]

[quote name='socalscout' date='Dec 18 2004, 04:51 PM'] Ok you did very well explaining it. Correct me if I am wrong. The child Jesus will be called Emmanuel like saying the child Jesus will be "God with us".

Not really a title but not really a name. Maybe a moniker. Thanks [/quote]
Yeah! You got it.

But it might sound better if put like this.. instead of:[quote]Jesus will be "God with us".[/quote] Its more like...
Jesus is God, for God (is) with us.
Otherwise, the 'will be' might be implied as 'not here yet'.

In the womb the announcement-'a moniker'.(Emmanuel)
Once born God is of flesh and bone(Jesus)-just like you and me.
God is so awesome, to walk among us in the flesh. To experience our everyday earthly experiences.
Totally human-Totally devine.

Whew!
It's so hard to convey sometimes what Im trying to say.
I dont get into the big words that much. At least, I only work with the ones I know well.

[BLAZEr]

[quote name='socalscout' date='Dec 18 2004, 05:01 PM'] Did you read my post because I directly quoted the Bible? I did not paraphrase. Maybe spelling is different in Old to New with Emmanuel and Immanuel but none the less it is said to be a name.

Yes not everything in the Bible is literal but some things are so the question is still not answered.

I don't have a problem with "Jesus" I just want to know why he is to be called Jesus and Emmanuel when they do not mean the same.

LOL yeah it could be his middle name because we all know "Christ" is his last name. [/quote]
No, I meant it's not a name that is used anywhere else in the Bible . . . Jesus' name is actually Jeshua . . . Jesus is a "typo" of sorts . . . or a translation you could say . . .

[socalscout]

[quote name='BLAZEr' date='Dec 18 2004, 04:42 PM'] No, I meant it's not a name that is used anywhere else in the Bible . . . Jesus' name is actually Jeshua . . . Jesus is a "typo" of sorts . . . or a translation you could say . . . [/quote]
Oh, my bad. I did not understand, sorry.

[Don John of Austria]

[QUOTE]Morning Star for Jesus and Mary" funny It's also a name for Satan... It was a really popualr title I guess.

[Quietfire]

[quote name='BLAZEr' date='Dec 18 2004, 05:42 PM'] No, I meant it's not a name that is used anywhere else in the Bible . . . Jesus' name is actually Jeshua . . . Jesus is a "typo" of sorts . . . or a translation you could say . . . [/quote]
So then why do we call Our Lord, Jesus?
I know we are still speaking of Our Lord.
I mean, we all know who we are speaking of when we call Our Lord, Jesus.

Some people argue that we should never have called Our Lord by the name Jesus. That it should never had been used.

I had a thread like this in Apologetics but this one seems to have gotten alot farther than that one, in it that this explains the Emmanuel.

Somewhere, there is an explanation. I'm not questioning whether we should or shouldnt. I just wanted to know how we came to the name Jesus for the Son of God, and why, and whether it was a correct decision.

This is the stuff I love to dig into but going through some of the ECF and the reference section really wears me out to the point where I find myself coming across the same information over and over and feel I'm getting nowhere.

Plus the fact that for some reason y'all end up debating Protestants (at least it always seems that way ) whereas I end up debating with people who argue stuff like this and I am at a loss to defend.

I grew up calling the Son of God, Jesus.