Taking the Lord's name in vain

[peach_cube]

Yeah, just that. For instance, I understand it that if it is done in a habitual way similar to swearing then it is a venial sin. Am I correct?

Also, the intent of it must be something other than being pissed off about something or frustrated and just blurting it out.

Just wondering because if my thoughts on this are wrong then I would need to go to confession much more frequently. Also I don't want to give others the wrong information.

Thanks.

[Phatmasser777]

Its becoming a fashion but God as the word itself has lost its meaning today as well, when people say 'God D..etc' they might even be atheists but say it simply becoz its become a social slang. Just what ive noticed.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Dec 22 2004, 08:42 AM'] Its becoming a fashion but God as the word itself has lost its meaning today as well, when people say 'God D..etc' they might even be atheists but say it simply becoz its become a social slang. Just what ive noticed. [/quote]
Yep.

Though I find it interesting that these same people would want "under God" out of the Pledge of Alliegance. It's a shame.

[thessalonian]

It is always a GRAVE MORAL EVIL to say the Lord's name in vain. It's a commandment after all. Culpability may be lessened due to consent of will (as in a habit that someone is trying to overcome) or perhaps a slip up due to a past habbit, and knowledge (someone who does not have the Churches teachings on the matter) but it is always a grave offense against God. For myself I would say it would be mortal if I was angry and did not just accidently slip it out but actually in defience after thinking about it said it. (G.D.). It should be avoided at all costs.

[Don John of Austria]

Thessalonian-- If you think about what you are saying, and you truely mean what you say, you are NOT takingthe Lords name in vain, taking the Lords name in Vain means preciselythat you use it frivolously, no If you mean it you are not breaking that commandment--- You are breaking Christ command to Love your nieghbor as your self, truely wishing somebody damned is of course a grievous sin in it's own right, that is true Hatred. It is perhaps the most grievous sin you can Cmmit agianst another person, but it is not taking the Lords name in vain.

[popestpiusx]

To blaspheme during the glorious reign of St. Louis IX would have gotten your tongue removed (for second offence). I'm sure we are talking about lesser offenses than blasphemy though.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 22 2004, 10:13 AM'] Thessalonian-- If you think about what you are saying, and you truely mean what you say, you are NOT takingthe Lords name in vain, taking the Lords name in Vain means preciselythat you use it frivolously, no If you mean it you are not breaking that commandment--- You are breaking Christ command to Love your nieghbor as your self, truely wishing somebody damned is of course a grievous sin in it's own right, that is true Hatred. It is perhaps the most grievous sin you can Cmmit agianst another person, but it is not taking the Lords name in vain. [/quote]
You don't have to be using it with full knowledge of what you're doing. I agree with Thess here.

[Don John of Austria]

qfnol31-- thats exactly what i was saying, useing it frivolusly is taking the lords name in Vain, useing it after concidering it is a completly differant sin.

[qfnol31]

Then I probably agree with you too.

[Quietfire]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Dec 22 2004, 08:14 AM'] Yep.

Though I find it interesting that these same people would want "under God" out of the Pledge of Alliegance. It's a shame. [/quote]
Then maybe these same folks shouldnt use our money, on which every coin and bill states..."In God we Trust".

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 22 2004, 11:13 AM'] Thessalonian-- If you think about what you are saying, and you truely mean what you say, you are NOT takingthe Lords name in vain, taking the Lords name in Vain means preciselythat you use it frivolously, no If you mean it you are not breaking that commandment--- You are breaking Christ command to Love your nieghbor as your self, truely wishing somebody damned is of course a grievous sin in it's own right, that is true Hatred. It is perhaps the most grievous sin you can Cmmit agianst another person, but it is not taking the Lords name in vain. [/quote]
Don,

GD is cursing correct?

Taken from Examination of Conscience at:

[url="http://www.scborromeo.org/confess.htm"]http://www.scborromeo.org/confess.htm[/url]

SECOND COMMANDMENT
"You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain." (Ex 20:7)

Did I blaspheme or insult God?
Did I take God's name carelessly or uselessly?
Did I curse, or break an oath or vow?
Did I get angry with God?


From the Catechsim as well:

2162 The second commandment forbids every improper use of God's name. Blasphemy is the use of the name of God, of Jesus Christ, of the Virgin Mary, and of the saints in an offensive way.

GD is certainly offensive. Quit true that there is another sin involved in this usage but it is still a violation of the second commandment.


Blessings

[Ash Wednesday]

I always understood it to be that using God's name in a very flippant matter out of bad habit and split second exasperation was venial sin but saying it deliberately in blaspheming God and using his name deliberately in an offensive light, and wishing for God to beaver dam someone to hell would be a mortal sin.

Of course I really don't intend to say "It is just a venial sin" because even venial sin is not okay -- and the notion of "how much can I get away with" paves a wide and easy road to mortal sin and possibly hell.

[peach_cube]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Dec 22 2004, 06:08 PM'] I always understood it to be that using God's name in a very flippant matter out of bad habit and split second exasperation was venial sin but saying it deliberately in blaspheming God and using his name deliberately in an offensive light, and wishing for God to beaver dam someone to hell would be a mortal sin.

Of course I really don't intend to say "It is just a venial sin" because even venial sin is not okay -- and the notion of "how much can I get away with" paves a wide and easy road to mortal sin and possibly hell. [/quote]
Yeah, that is kind of what I was trying to understand. It just seems that taking the Lord's name in vain, in any instance, can be said to be a mortal sin. However, in my examination of conscience it lists sins in venial and mortal categories, but only seems to go into specific circumstances with swear words. It just seems looking straight at the bible it could be a mortal sin no matter what the situation?

It just would seem that if it was part of a bad habit that the same situations that apply to venial usage of swear words would also apply to the Lord's name?

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far, it helps me alot.

[Mary's Knight, La]

i can see both sides here, if you say it seriously then you're asking God to condemn something which isn't saying it flippantly but is saying it blasphemously in a sense. Just because God allows us to be damned doesn't mean [u]He[/u] damns us. While I don't know the original language in english the connotation is don't use it fruitlessly. And asking God to positively condemn something is as much a fruitless use as saying it flippantly.

Edited December 23, 2004 by Mary's Knight, La

[CreepyCrawler]

i think it's bad to say "oh my God!" b/c that seems vain. but is it wrong to say "oh my goodness!" since God is goodness and you're just using another word for God...?

my friend really takes offense at G.D. so instead he takes Bob Dole's name in vain and says "Bob Dole!" when he gets angry. It confuses people..

[drewmeister2]

Here is what I found in the CCC:

I. The Name of the Lord is Holy

2142 The second commandment prescribes respect for the Lord's name. Like the first commandment, it belongs to the virtue of religion and more particularly it governs our use of speech in sacred matters.

2143 Among all the words of Revelation, there is one which is unique: the revealed name of God. God confides his name to those who believe in him; he reveals himself to them in his personal mystery. the gift of a name belongs to the order of trust and intimacy. "The Lord's name is holy." For this reason man must not abuse it. He must keep it in mind in silent, loving adoration. He will not introduce it into his own speech except to bless, praise, and glorify it.74

2144 Respect for his name is an expression of the respect owed to the mystery of God himself and to the whole sacred reality it evokes. the sense of the sacred is part of the virtue of religion:

Are these feelings of fear and awe Christian feelings or not? . . . I say this, then, which I think no one can reasonably dispute. They are the class of feelings we should have - yes, have to an intense degree - if we literally had the sight of Almighty God; therefore they are the class of feelings which we shall have, if we realize His presence. In proportion as we believe that He is present, we shall have them; and not to have them, is not to realize, not to believe that He is present.75

2145 The faithful should bear witness to the Lord's name by confessing the faith without giving way to fear.76 Preaching and catechizing should be permeated with adoration and respect for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2146 The second commandment forbids the abuse of God's name, i.e., every improper use of the names of God, Jesus Christ, but also of the Virgin Mary and all the saints.

2147 Promises made to others in God's name engage the divine honor, fidelity, truthfulness, and authority. They must be respected in justice. To be unfaithful to them is to misuse God's name and in some way to make God out to be a liar.77

2148 Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; in speaking ill of God; in failing in respect toward him in one's speech; in misusing God's name. St. James condemns those "who blaspheme that honorable name [of Jesus] by which you are called."78 The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ's Church, the saints, and sacred things. It is also blasphemous to make use of God's name to cover up criminal practices, to reduce peoples to servitude, to torture persons or put them to death. the misuse of God's name to commit a crime can provoke others to repudiate religion.
Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin.79

2149 Oaths which misuse God's name, though without the intention of blasphemy, show lack of respect for the Lord. the second commandment also forbids magical use of the divine name.

[God's] name is great when spoken with respect for the greatness of his majesty. God's name is holy when said with veneration and fear of offending him.80

It looks like, according to CCC 2143 and 2145 that you are to use His name only in praise and with respect. Whenever Im not sure if using His name might be a sin or not, I just don't use it.

For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must be met:
1. The action must be seriously wrong.
2. The person must know the action is seriously wrong.
3. The person, knowing that it is wrong, does it anyway.

I hope this helps!

[Don John of Austria]

If one means for someoe to actually be damned then that is not in Vain, This is not a defence of the act, for to actually will that someone go to Hell is a terrible sin. It is not Blasphemy as one can do it with the utmost respect to God, it is pure unadulterated hatred but it is not a violation of the second commandment, it seems that it would be a violation of Thou shall not Murder as you wish for someones eternal Death, still there is nothing vain about the act.



vain ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vn)
adj. vain·er, vain·est
Not yielding the desired outcome; fruitless: a vain attempt.
Lacking substance or worth: vain talk.
Excessively proud of one's appearance or accomplishments; conceited.
Archaic. Foolish.

Idiom:
in vain
To no avail; without success: Our labor was in vain.
In an irreverent or disrespectful manner: took the Lord's name in vain.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
12/24 - Fourth Friday of Advent

Properly understood, "God" is not the Holy Name of God - it's what I gingerly refer to as "the Y-word" (it's just too holy to say or write - it's not a pietistic thing, it's just true). However, one can use it in reference to God, as in prayer, as well as in cursing. If I say "dog" with the intention of cursing someone or something with the name of God, it "counts," if you will.

Just stay away from the whole blasphemy thing if you can.

[peach_cube]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Dec 22 2004, 10:25 AM'] It is always a GRAVE MORAL EVIL to say the Lord's name in vain. It's a commandment after all. Culpability may be lessened due to consent of will (as in a habit that someone is trying to overcome) or perhaps a slip up due to a past habbit, and knowledge (someone who does not have the Churches teachings on the matter) but it is always a grave offense against God. For myself I would say it would be mortal if I was angry and did not just accidently slip it out but actually in defience after thinking about it said it. (G.D.). It should be avoided at all costs. [/quote]
So if it just slips out is it a Mortal Sin? Or a venial sin? Does anyone know of a source that clearly tries to define which is mortal and which is venial?

[save ferris 101]

[quote name='peach_cube' date='Dec 30 2004, 11:15 PM'] So if it just slips out is it a Mortal Sin? Or a venial sin? Does anyone know of a source that clearly tries to define which is mortal and which is venial? [/quote]
I think that it really depends on the case. Also, it's really up to God to determine whether what you did is mortal or venial, and I'm sure that most of the time you will know it as well, but I don't think that other people besides yourself and God can determine whether it is mortal or venial