ICTHUS Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 Yesterday I had an experience in which I was tempted to give up. I despaired of my faith, thought that it was not worth it, and that the cost of following Christ was too great. My experience is [url="http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91702"]given in more detail here[/url] Yet I did not give up the Faith. I wanted to, honestly. Living without the problems that following Christ according to my conscience and the Word of God causes me with my, 1. Irreligious (actually, almost anti-Christian) mother 2. Roman Catholic extended family, who all but forced me into my confirmation when I was having doubts about it. ...is too much at times. But I did not repudiate my faith, in spite of massive temptation. The truth is, I cannot imagine life apart from Christ. He defines my existance. I was thinking about how different people would explain this. I am Reformed, so I would say that God, in His mercy, ordained that I should persevere through this temptation so that I may be strengthened in my faith and kept unto eternal life. A Roman Catholic would no doubt relegate some power to my own will, saying that I had enough willpower to resist the temptation to apostasize. Yet this latter is not the case. I was ready to give up. But honestly, I cannot imagine life apart from Christ, as said above. God's [b]grace[/b], not good intentions or a strong will, enabled me to persevere through that despair and come out with an intact faith. Praise God that His will, not mine, is the final say in my salvation...if it were, I would be royally screwed.
thessalonian Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) "A Roman Catholic would no doubt relegate some power to my own will, saying that I had enough willpower to resist the temptation to apostasize. " This sort of nonsense makes me think Monk may have a point. How many times have you been told. All is grace. Grace assists the will. Someone put an end to this mans constant misrepresentations which are in fact in the category of LIES. "Praise God that His will, not mine, is the final say in my salvation...if it were, I would be royally screwed. " If you willfully resisted Catholicism and left or left because of wanton sin and persist in such error (rejecting God's grace that pulls you back toward her) you still are. God bless Edited December 28, 2004 by thessalonian
Apotheoun Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 27 2004, 06:28 PM'] Yesterday I had an experience in which I was tempted to give up. I despaired of my faith, thought that it was not worth it, and that the cost of following Christ was too great. My experience is [url="http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91702"]given in more detail here[/url] Yet I did not give up the Faith. I wanted to, honestly. Living without the problems that following Christ according to my conscience and the Word of God causes me with my, 1. Irreligious (actually, almost anti-Christian) mother 2. Roman Catholic extended family, who all but forced me into my confirmation when I was having doubts about it. ...is too much at times. But I did not repudiate my faith, in spite of massive temptation. The truth is, I cannot imagine life apart from Christ. He defines my existance. I was thinking about how different people would explain this. I am Reformed, so I would say that God, in His mercy, ordained that I should persevere through this temptation so that I may be strengthened in my faith and kept unto eternal life. A Roman Catholic would no doubt relegate some power to my own will, saying that I had enough willpower to resist the temptation to apostasize. Yet this latter is not the case. I was ready to give up. But honestly, I cannot imagine life apart from Christ, as said above. God's [b]grace[/b], not good intentions or a strong will, enabled me to persevere through that despair and come out with an intact faith. Praise God that His will, not mine, is the final say in my salvation...if it were, I would be royally screwed. [/quote] Your understanding of the Catholic doctrine of grace is, to put it simply, in error. The Church teaches that man can only do what he is called upon to do in the order of salvation with the aid of God's grace. Any action that is done in the supernatural order has God as its primary efficient cause, while the man in question is a true but secondary cause of the supernaturally good act performed by him. God bless, Todd
Apotheoun Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 ICTHUS, you have my prayers. God bless, Todd
james Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) It is amazing that despite being repeatedly called on the straw men that ICTHUS sets up for himself to attack, he persists. [quote]ICTHUS, you have my prayers.[/quote] Indeed. Edited December 28, 2004 by james
ICTHUS Posted December 28, 2004 Author Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Dec 27 2004, 08:32 PM'] "Praise God that His will, not mine, is the final say in my salvation...if it were, I would be royally screwed. " If you willfully resisted Catholicism and left or left because of wanton sin and persist in such error (rejecting God's grace that pulls you back toward her) you still are. God bless [/quote] God's grace does not pull me back towads the Roman Catholic Church. It constantly shows me the errors of Roman Catholicism in light of God's Holy Word and makes me thank God that He prompted me to leave her damnable apostasy behind.
james Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 27 2004, 08:47 PM'] God's grace does not pull me back towads the Roman Catholic Church. It constantly shows me the errors of Roman Catholicism in light of God's Holy Word and makes me thank God that He prompted me to leave her damnable apostasy behind. [/quote] And what accounts for your misrepresentations? Grace? If the Roman Catholic Church is the synagogue of Satan, as you allege, surely you would be able to refute it's teachings without the use of false accusations. Edited December 28, 2004 by james
musturde Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 I'll pray God's will be done, whether he wants u catholic or not.
hyperdulia again Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 musturde, God wants everyone Catholic. to not want them catholic is to want them in hell.
ironmonk Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 27 2004, 10:47 PM'] God's grace does not pull me back towads the Roman Catholic Church. It constantly shows me the errors of Roman Catholicism in light of God's Holy Word and makes me thank God that He prompted me to leave her damnable apostasy behind. [/quote] hmmm.... If the Catholic Church is damnable... and the anglican church came from the Catholic Church, just as the anglican church proclaims... what does that make the anglican church? if the Catholic Church is damnable, then there is no God, and therefore no such thing as damnation. So therefore it's not damnable. Wouldn't that mean if you're right, you're still wrong... btw... if you haven't noticed, this red harring thread didn't work.... to me, this just affirms my theory that you where never Catholic. Just like Rick Jones claims he was Catholic - [url="http://www.moraltruth.com/RJones-03.asp"]http://www.moraltruth.com/RJones-03.asp[/url] I pray that God helps you, ironmonk
ICTHUS Posted December 28, 2004 Author Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 28 2004, 12:21 AM'] hmmm.... If the Catholic Church is damnable... and the anglican church came from the Catholic Church, just as the anglican church proclaims... what does that make the anglican church? if the Catholic Church is damnable, then there is no God, and therefore no such thing as damnation. So therefore it's not damnable. Wouldn't that mean if you're right, you're still wrong... btw... if you haven't noticed, this red harring thread didn't work.... to me, this just affirms my theory that you where never Catholic. Just like Rick Jones claims he was Catholic - [url="http://www.moraltruth.com/RJones-03.asp"]http://www.moraltruth.com/RJones-03.asp[/url] I pray that God helps you, ironmonk [/quote] I was never a Roman Catholic? Then why did I defend the Roman Catholic Church for a good year or so on CGR?
dairygirl4u2c Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 iron I'm serious when I say this. I think you need to see a psychiatrist. Talk to somebody about your catholic apologetic complexes.
ICTHUS Posted December 28, 2004 Author Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 28 2004, 12:21 AM'] hmmm.... If the Catholic Church is damnable... and the anglican church came from the Catholic Church, just as the anglican church proclaims... what does that make the anglican church? [/quote] It makes her reformed - having eliminated the errors inherent in Romanism and become pure again (aside from some liberal elements in the USA and Canada - Anglicanism worldwide is verymuch faithful to God's Word)
ICTHUS Posted December 28, 2004 Author Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 28 2004, 12:21 AM'] if the Catholic Church is damnable, then there is no God, and therefore no such thing as damnation. So therefore it's not damnable. Wouldn't that mean if you're right, you're still wrong... [/quote] This does not follow.
thessalonian Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) "God's grace does not pull me back towads the Roman Catholic Church. It constantly shows me the errors of Roman Catholicism in light of God's Holy Word and makes me thank God that He prompted me to leave her damnable apostasy behind. " You mistake his grace for his allowing your heart to harden it seems as there is only one direction grace will pull a man and that is toward the fullness of the truth. I am often deeply disturbed by those who have left the faith and Hebrews 6. You know the verse. The one that Protestants say is only hypothetical. One who has rejected the grace of confession and Eucharist is not in good shape I fear. I will pray as well. Your obstinance in misrepresenting her teachings only is an indication to me that you you are not and perhaps never were open. You said earlier today that your family forced you in to confirmation and yet above you say "I defended her a year ago". Seems king of contradictory to me. Once again, I will pray however. God bless Edited December 28, 2004 by thessalonian
thessalonian Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 28 2004, 12:44 AM'] It makes her reformed - having eliminated the errors inherent in Romanism and become pure again (aside from some liberal elements in the USA and Canada - Anglicanism worldwide is verymuch faithful to God's Word) [/quote] Then you are okay with it's infant baptisms and that it believes in the real prescence in the Lord's supper as well as the priesthood? I do believe they even have some devotion to the blessed mother.
ICTHUS Posted December 28, 2004 Author Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Dec 28 2004, 01:07 AM'] Then you are okay with it's infant baptisms and that it believes in the real prescence in the Lord's supper as well as the priesthood? I do believe they even have some devotion to the blessed mother. [/quote] Yes - I believe in infant baptism, the priesthood (though not the Roman conception) and real presence. As for devotion to Mary...I'm not okay with. I have a high degre of respect for her as an example of Godliness, but I have no devotion to her.
Ash Wednesday Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 Ichthus, I am sorry to hear about your turmoils. However, I don't think it was ever the intentions of your extended Catholic family to cause a great crises with your own faith by encouraging your confirmation despite your doubts. Such things were not meant to be done out of malice but out of charity. God is not done with you yet. Nor is he with any of us.... I hope that your faith, as the thread that ought to be holding the seams of life together, can bring you into a more peaceful harbor. My prayers.
ironmonk Posted December 28, 2004 Posted December 28, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 28 2004, 03:18 AM'] Yes - I believe in infant baptism, the priesthood (though not the Roman conception) and real presence. As for devotion to Mary...I'm not okay with. I have a high degre of respect for her as an example of Godliness, but I have no devotion to her. [/quote] You just called the Eucharist a 'piece of bread' on another thread. You seem to contradict yourself quite a bit. Maybe you need a break and should come back after you have studied and figured out what you believe to be true. The anglican church priesthood STEMS FROM the Roman Catholic "concept" of Priesthood. Maybe you should actually learn a little about the anglican church and it's history from them before you set yourself up for failure again. [url="http://www.anglican.org/church/ChurchHistory.html"]http://www.anglican.org/church/ChurchHistory.html[/url] It began in the sixth century in England, [u][b]when Pope Gregory the Great sent St. Augustine to Britain to bring a more disciplined Apostolic succession to the Celtic Christians.[/b][/u] The Anglican Church evolved as part of the Roman church, but the Celtic influence was folded back into the Roman portion of the church in many ways, perhaps most notably by Charlemagne's tutor Aidan. The Anglican church was spread worldwide first by English colonization and then by English-speaking missionaries. It appears again, because of your lack of study, you don't know what you're talking about in regards to Priesthood. You can stop this madness by studying, if you studied enough, no one would be able to point out that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm only trying to help you learn, it's going to take some effort on your part. I want you to learn the truth. God Bless, ironmonk
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