Ellenita Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Blazer, the implications of that are huge! It would mean that the wife would have to have the same kind of calling as her husband, since divorce isn't permitted in the Catholic church. What if she didn't feel she had that sort of calling?
cmotherofpirl Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 There is no rule that says an ex-Anglican priest has to become a Roman Catholic one either. I think its a mistake that we allow Deacons to have relations with their wives. This is a clear break from tradition too. It has been the constant tradition of the Church that clerics are celibate. Even married clerics had to take a promise of celibacy (as opposed to just chastity, which in a marriage would allow for sex). I'll be sure to email this to the married deacons I know. :)
BLAZEr Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Blazer, the implications of that are huge! It would mean that the wife would have to have the same kind of calling as her husband, since divorce isn't permitted in the Catholic church. What if she didn't feel she had that sort of calling? Then he shouldn't be ordained. I mean, this is not unlike Christ saying that you have to leave father and mother and brother and sister . . . and wife I left my celibacy book at home (at at the Youth Office right now) but I will have to bring it by. Its by Scepter Press and it treats this whole topic very well. And yes, it would be a big shock to most Deacons to learn that the Church used to require celibacy of its Deacons. Don't even get me started on the god-awful formation most Deacons get.
cmotherofpirl Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 This, of course, depends on the diocese of which you are speaking. Men do need their wives permission before becoming deacons. And deacons must promise not to remarry if their wife dies.
BLAZEr Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Men do need their wives permission before becoming deacons. And deacons must promise not to remarry if their wife dies. AHHH a perfect opportunity: Do you know why that is? They needed permission because they used to be celibates. Because it meant the wife was giving something up too . . . her marital rights. And that's why they couldn't remarry . . . becuase they had already been promised celibacy so if they remarried they couldn't consummate their marriage to make it valid . . . That's why the Church's teaching is that although a married man can get ordained, an ordained man can't get married . . .
Ellenita Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Then he shouldn't be ordained What if he felt that God was calling him to the Catholic church? Presumably, since the discussion was about married Anglican priests, he felt that God was calling him to be married to his wife when he was an anglican! This is really troubling me, especially since I think there will be many anglican priests who will want to join the Catholic church with the current potential schism, and there is a clear history in the anglican church of priests actively being encouraged to marry. I honestly find it diffcult to believe that God who has called two people to be together in marriage would then ask them to live a life together which was celebate. Why ask them to be married in the first place?
BLAZEr Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Their priestly orders aren't valid in the Catholic church so they would all have to be re-ordained anyway. I have a friend who was Catholic became Anglican married, became a priest and recently converted . .. He has not been allowed to be a priest even though he was ordained by a validly ordained bishop (though schismatic, an ex-catholic bishop). He is just a regular layman in the Catholic Church, while his bishop investigates this . . . I would say that the Church probably will make allowances for any Anglican priests who come over to the Catholic Church. There is an order of goods, and I think Unity is probably going to outweight the celibate demands of the priesthood. And to be perfectly honest, I'm articulating the tradition but I am not sure what recent practice is. For all I know currently married priests are allowed to have sex with their wives, I don't know . . .
ironmonk Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 16 years after the Angelican's split, the king changed the ordination process. 83 years after that, they realized that they were invalid orders, but it was too late, everyone with valid orders were already dead. Hence, the reordination when Angelican's come home to Rome. <See Radio Replies> God Bless, ironmonk
cmotherofpirl Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 If your friend was Catholic, who became a married Anglican priest, and reconverted he may not become a Catholic priest. They just talked about this on EWTN last week. Converted married Anglican priests are permitted to have sex with their wives.
hyperdulia again Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 well, he is a priest if he was ordained by a validly ordained bishop (even if he's a schismatic)..he just can't use his priestly faculties.
BLAZEr Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 If your friend was Catholic, who became a married Anglican priest, and reconverted he may not become a Catholic priest. They just talked about this on EWTN last week. Converted married Anglican priests are permitted to have sex with their wives. They can and do make exceptions . . . the question is whether or not he left in order to get married and become a priest. He did not . . . However when he came back, he told his Old Congregation, they walked him down to the Catholic Church . . . he made a Confession and went to Sunday mass and received the Eucharist all in one day.
Norseman82 Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 I only know one married priest in the Byzantine Rite and he originally from Europe. He and his wife have to make a promise of "continence" Which means that they are not allowed to have relations with each other. The Ukranian Rite Catholic priest I interviewed mentioned something about his going to bed with his wife might bother some people, so I somehow don't think that he was forbiden to have relations with his wife.
PedroX Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 IronMonk's history is right on target. With one added question. Did the Anglicans lose valid ordinations, the minute they left Rome? In other words, while the original Bishops and priests (who were Catholics before the split) anyone ordained after the split would be automatically invalid? Yes? This is what is going on with SPX and other schismatics, right? Just a bit confused... peace...
hyperdulia again Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 that's not true, if that was the case then the orthodox churches wouldn't have apostolic succession and valid sacraments.
PedroX Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 Good point, Hyper. I actually hadn't thought of that. So, does that mean that all the schismatics retain Holy Orders, and can validly ordain priests?
Katholikos Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 (edited) Y'all know, don't you (now you do!) that the Lord Bishop of London, The Reverend and Right Honorable Father Graham Leonard, (Anglican, obviously, and married) became a Catholic priest? He's now a monsignor, an honorary title, but he's just an ordinary priest in the Catholic Church. The Lord Bishop of London is third in the Anglican hierarchy; only two archbishops precede him in rank. As Lord Bishop, he was advisor to the Queen and a member of the House of Lords. "To say that we came [to the Catholic Church] because we could not accept women priests, homosexual practices, remarriage after divorce, the doctrines of sola fide or sola scriptura is not only to take no account of the reasons why we believed the Catholic Church to be right and asked her to embrace us. . . we became Catholic because we were convinced that the Catholic Church is the pillar and ground of truth about God and man." Fr. Graham Leonard, My Personal Path to Rome He said to his friends, "I have to become a Catholic because I must be a Catholic or an infidel!" And "Catholicism and Christianity had in my mind become identical so that to give up the one would be to give up the other." [ibid] He has been a Catholic since April, 1994. Charming, holy man, lovely wife, also a Catholic convert. I've heard him speak twice at a "Path to Rome" conference sponsored by Miles Jesu, of which he is a member. The other married priest I know was Episcopalian; he has four children. Great priest, very orthodox, loves the BVM. I don't think there's any restriction on conjugal relations for these married Catholic priests, though I think some may forego conjugal relations voluntarily. Edited October 21, 2003 by Katholikos
Ellenita Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 Katholikos, thanks for that information. I think I will find it very helpful to read about his journey from the Anglican church to the Catholic faith.
Katholikos Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 Katholikos, thanks for that information. I think I will find it very helpful to read about his journey from the Anglican church to the Catholic faith. "My Personal Path to Rome" is a little booklet which can be ordered from http://www.milesjesu.com
Ellenita Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 Hey, thanks again Katholikos! :D I just went into Amazon to see if I could buy it there but couldn't find it.
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