US Soldiers Commits Suicide to Avoid Going Back

January 13, 2005

I have to say I agree with everybody in here.

On the one hand, I feel that you shouldn't join the military unless you are willing to accept and deal with the consequences of going to war.

On the other hand, having experience with mental illness, with homeless veterans, and with the psychiatric system in America, I think that these soldiers should not have been told they were going back to Iraq and given a date for that to happen. They should have been medically (and mentally) examined, given the treatment they needed. And then, if declared fit for combat, they should have gone back. But I think what people fail to understand and recognize is that mental illness is as much an illness as cancer or the flu. It is something that needs treatment. A soldier with mental illness or PTSD is NOT fit for duty.

So - the soldiers should go back. But we should all have compassion for them, they should get the help they need, and they should be healthy before they do it.

January 13, 2005

[quote name='Phazzan' date='Jan 13 2005, 10:50 AM'] Do you realize PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) is a mental injury? I think it's arrogant and self righteous to suggest these soldiers are "sherking" their responsibilites AS soldiers, when clearly they were not mentally fit to return to service. They were reacting normally (as in defying responsibilities) to an abnormal situation. I would think the only thing worse than committing suicide at home is doing it in Iraq and taking half your platoon with you. I also would've thought soliders would undergo stringent psychological evalutation prior to returning to the battlefield. If there was, there would've been no need for these soldiers to "shirk" their responsibilities, hence kill themselves. [/quote]
Thank you Phazzan for pointing out PTSD. Yes, I'm well aware of this mental disconnect. Again, all the soldier had to do was stand up and say, "No, I'm not going back,". Then he probably would have eventually gotten help.

There is never a "normal situation" where one would commit sucide. Men have gone to war for centuries in wars they didn't believe in, and some have committed suicde but most have not.

It's arrogant and self-righteous to think that one can escape the wrath of God and the suffering of the world by selfishly and cowardly committing sucide. The shirking of the duties referred more towards the soldiers in the article who simply went AWOL.

And I'm not [i]suggesting[/i] anyone shirked their duties, I'm [i][b]stating fact[/b][/i].

January 13, 2005

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Jan 13 2005, 01:19 PM'] ironmonk, you rock

Anyhow, "bring them home" will only result in more deaths of children that the 'article' condemns. [/quote]
Thanks bro...

I agree with you.

I want the soldiers to come home, but I know that if they leave now there will be a long drawn out war in Iraq. The terrorist will attack more openly and in greater forces if the US leaves Iraq now. More people will die and be tortured worse than when Saddam was in power. These fanatical muslims have been this way for about 1300 years... What makes the left think they'll just stop fighting? Where is the compassion for the poor Iraqi people?!

If the US troops left now there would be tens of thousands of innocent well meaning Iraqi people.

Last I checked it was a volunteer military, why hasn't the media been showing more of the men who want to be there? They get one out of a thousand that doesn't want to be there and raise him on their shoulders screaming look at this one. Yeah... the one that doesn't want to keep his promise, the one who doesn't want to help his 'friends', the one out of a thousand.

God Bless.
ironmonk

January 13, 2005

[quote]Thank you Phazzan for pointing out PTSD. Yes, I'm well aware of this mental disconnect. Again, all the soldier had to do was stand up and say, "No, I'm not going back,". Then he probably would have eventually gotten help.[/quote]

The "defying" soldier is subject to ridicule, humiliation and possibly legal action at the hands of the Army, American Government and public. Refusing service is no more honourable, pleasing or forgivable than a soldier who goes AWOL. However, both are normal reactions to abnormal situations, and probably fueled by irrational fear or an anxiety complex (link PTSD). Of course some will intentionally "shirk" their responsibilities cause they're too weak and whimpish to go on, but it's ignorant to judge them all like that, when some are more fit for service than others.

And no one ever said one can escape the wrath of God by committing suicide, but you know, these soldiers that do were probably suffering from psychiatric illness. There's only one Person that know the mental and emotional well being of these soliders, and He alone can judge. I used to see suicide as an evil, selfish cowardly thing to do, and while it still may be, please understand people really had to suffer to want to do it.

January 13, 2005

I do not have the time nor the energy to read this entire thread right now, but let me respond with a few thoughts.

First, students out of high school are old enough to make these decisions. It is a product of our society that doesn't force young men and women to grow up when they are supposed to. A young 17 or 18 year old is a man or a woman, a young man or woman yes, but nevertheless a man or woman. He or she is old enough to think for him or herself. It is high time for our society to quit letting people be children until they are 25.

Secondly, as is the case with anyone in the Armed Services, this guy had a choice. He could have signed up, knowing full well that there was a chance he would be sent off to war, or he could have not signed up. He chose to sign up. That is his decision. Whether or not he objects is irrelevant.

Thirdly, I cannot STAND when people call our soldiers murderers and terrorists. They are anything but and anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant of the situation. Our soldiers are bringing about freedom in the world today. Freedom is a good thing. You want to talk about terrorism? Talk about 9-11. Talk about Saddam Hussein and his henchmen. Talk about Yassir Arafat. American soldiers are not terrorists. If this world weren't so influenced by left-wing biases in the media, George Bush would be being praised as a hero and champion of freedom, which he most certainly is.

Now, I am going to pose a very simple question to everyone opposed to the war in Iraq. Here it is. Is the world better off today with Saddam Hussein out of power? Yes or no. Simple.

God Bless and God Bless America

January 13, 2005

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jan 13 2005, 07:40 AM'] Still whining about the American government. Maybe we should bring our 13,000 soldiers who are aiding tsunami victims home, maybe we should keep all our money?
Or maybe we should only aid the victims who like us? Maybe we should ask if they like us and sign a paper stating this before we feed them?
Those are the things you would expect of an evil government right?

I suppose I wouldn't be horrified by actions taken by the irish or the brits or the canadian governments? They are made up of paragons of virtue correct?

Governments are made up of sinners just like you and me. So to say you wish the government to fall or the government is evil, is to say many friends, neighbors and relations etc are evil people. Is that your intention?
I was a govenment employee does that make me evil? My family has honorably served in the military for 300 years, so are we all evil? Do I like the military , not particularly. But if you sign up, you do the time , get help,or deal with the consequences.

You expect Catholics to separate the sin from the sinner in other areas, why can't you do the same? You don't like blanket condemnation, but its ok for you to dish out?

Yes there are "evil people" in government. Duh. There are "evil people" everywhere. Sometimes they seem to congregate in particular places [ like the Democratic party maybe?] oh but I can't say THAT can I?
If the guy was mentally ill he needed help, and its sad he didn't have the courage to get it, or wasn't forced in to it. Nobody forced him to hurt himself. He and his family both need prayers.

The liberal emotional rhetoric doesn't work. [/quote]
Awwww not use to people going against your 'beautiful, free and brave' country? :lol:

January 13, 2005

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jan 13 2005, 07:43 AM'] I didn't say YOU did, if you bothered to read it.

Oh, so now I'm arrogant because I spoke the truth? Whatever. If you want to play that game, so are you for basking in the glow of your supposed righteousness. Backhanded judgmentalism? Hmmmm, let's see, THEY COMMITTED SUICIDE TO GET OUT OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES. I think they passed judgement on themselves there, which, from the Catholic Church point of view, is NOT ok.

And yes, I am a winner. My video games tell me so. [/quote]
[quote]THEY COMMITTED SUICIDE TO GET OUT OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES.[/quote]

Edited by Ice Princess.

Edited January 14, 2005 by IcePrincessKRS

January 13, 2005

Is it just me or was that article just BIT biased? It's a tragic event, and making it fuel against a good man (aka, our president) doesn't honor the dead, it promotes an agenda.

January 14, 2005

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 13 2005, 03:31 AM'][b]How Many More Will it Take—How Many More Will Have to Die?[/b]

[/quote]
He didn't have to die. The situation didn't dictate that he had to die. There is always a choice. He may not have understood this. Too bad he had to take such an action that resulted in 2 deaths, his and the [url="http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4079115/detail.html?subid=22100408&qs=1;bp=t"]police officer[/url] that he killed.

January 14, 2005

[quote] do not have the time nor the energy to read this entire thread right now, but let me respond with a few thoughts.

First, students out of high school are old enough to make these decisions. It is a product of our society that doesn't force young men and women to grow up when they are supposed to. A young 17 or 18 year old is a man or a woman, a young man or woman yes, but nevertheless a man or woman. He or she is old enough to think for him or herself. It is high time for our society to quit letting people be children until they are 25.

Secondly, as is the case with anyone in the Armed Services, this guy had a choice. He could have signed up, knowing full well that there was a chance he would be sent off to war, or he could have not signed up. He chose to sign up. That is his decision. Whether or not he objects is irrelevant.

Thirdly, I cannot STAND when people call our soldiers murderers and terrorists. They are anything but and anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant of the situation. Our soldiers are bringing about freedom in the world today. Freedom is a good thing. You want to talk about terrorism? Talk about 9-11. Talk about Saddam Hussein and his henchmen. Talk about Yassir Arafat. American soldiers are not terrorists. If this world weren't so influenced by left-wing biases in the media, George Bush would be being praised as a hero and champion of freedom, which he most certainly is.

Now, I am going to pose a very simple question to everyone opposed to the war in Iraq. Here it is. Is the world better off today with Saddam Hussein out of power? Yes or no. Simple.

God Bless and God Bless America [/quote]
Great post JP2!

Time limits me from making a full post right now, but that said much of what I would like to have said.
I've really gotten sick of all the anti-American whining on this site.

God bless America!

Edited January 14, 2005 by Socrates

January 14, 2005

[quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 13 2005, 03:04 AM'] I don't think the US is evil cause I'm a "conservative." I think Conservatives (the Pope does not err EVER) and Liberals (the Church is purely human) are heretics. I just try to be an Orthodox Catholic, as such I believe this country is evil and find it very sad when the young are corrupted into supporting it. [/quote]
America - Love it or leave it!

January 14, 2005

I would respectfully like to request that everyone step back from this thread for a moment and take a deep breath.

Now, can we conduct a civilized debate without attacking each other?
Thanks.

Edited January 14, 2005 by bookwyrm

January 14, 2005

ok like totus tuus said:

This is a tragady that this soldier commited suicide and all- my prayers go out to him and his family and for all our soldiers. BUT- some libral had to TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS TRAGADY AND TURN IT INTO AN ATTACK ON OUR PRESIDENT GEORGE WALKER BUSH!!!! THAT REALLY TICKS ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CHEAP SCUM LIBRALS- YOU USE THE DEAD TO FURTHER YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA!!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO TACTICS LIKE THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT YOUR PARTY IS GOING SO LEFT WING THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DONT LIKE IT. And they showed that they dont like it when their voices were heard on NOVEMBER 2- but of course you question the elections as well. AND DO NOT CALL MY COUNTRY'S MILITARY A BUNCH OF TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I COULD JUST PUNCH YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE RIGHT NOW- YOUR LUCKY IM NOT THERE BECAUSE I WOULD- WHO KILLED 3000 ON 911?????? WAS IT OUR MILITARY??? WAS IT BUSH????? OF COURSE THE LIBRALS WANT TO SAY THAT- But no im sorry it was THE TERRORISTS- OSAMA BIN LADIN AND AL QUADA AND ALL THOSE MUSLIM FANATICAL MURDERERS. THEY are the savages- yet you attack your own country as being the terrorist. You act as if Sadam was a rightous man- yeah thats why he killed 200000 OF HIS OWN PEOPLE!!!!!!!! Thats why he had ties to al quaeda- and had the means and the want to develope wmds Thats why his sons took women off the street and raped and killed them- his regime implemented a reign of fear and terror upon the country where no one could ssay what they want- no one could have the RIGHTS THAT YOU TAKE FOR GRANTED EVERY STINKIN DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And then Bush is handed THREE separate inteligence reports from THREE different nations (us uk and russia) ALL SAYING THAT SADAM HAS WMDS. now after just witnessing 3000 people dead on your own soil- what would YOU do??? wait for the terrorist to get a hold of a nuke???? i know thats what the libs would do- but BUSH TOOK THE FIGHT TO THE ENEMY AND NOW SADAM IS NO LONGER A THREAT TO THE WORLD. Yes the situation in Iraq is rough- yes our soldiers are dying BUT ITS WAR- and WE WILL WIPE OUT THESE TERRORIST SCUMS- BUT HOW DARE YOU CALL MY MILITARY A BUNCH OF TERRORISTS- YOU ARE UN INFORMED, IGNORANT, AND NIEAVE- THE TERRORISTS ARE THE ONES SETTING OFF ROAD AND CAR BOMBS- KILLING US SOLDIERS AND INOCENT IRAQIS- YET YOU CRITICIZE OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE BRAVLY SERVING THEIR COUNTRY SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE YOUR FREEDOM- LETS SEE YOU GO OVER THERE AND RISK YOUR LIFE FOR THIS GREAT NATION- THEN COME BACK AND TELL ME THEY ARE A BUNCH OF TERRORIST-
The USA is not an evil country
the us government is not evil
there ARE evil things in this country (murder, prostitution, porn, abortion, just to name a few)
and there ARE evil people in this government ( pro death people {what you libs like to call "pro choice" just to make the taking of an inocent life sound nice and pretty- you sick scums} )
but they country and the government are not evil

now someone said this and I quote "the Pope does not err EVER"
well it just so happens that I am studying this right now in religion- and YOU ARE WRONG- the Pope is a human being just like you and I and he does sin- he is however infalable ONLY WHEN SPEAKING TO THE WHOLE CHURCH ON MATTERS OF FAITH AND MORALS- so the statement that he never errs is just untrue

And of course I am a Catholic wayyy before an american or a republican but I WILL NOT STAND AROUND WHILE PEOPLE ATTACK MY GREAT COUNTRY- AND MOST ESPECAILLY CALLING OUR AMAZINGLY BRAVE MILITARY A BUNCH OF THUGS AND TERRORISTS- I SIMPLY WONT STAND FOR IT. And you know what just look at the numbers- 70% of our military supports BUSH- that SAYS something- they know best they are over there fighting- but oh yeah thats right theyre just a bunch of murderers to you. like I said- id like to see you take up arms to defend your country and go over there- then come and criticize them.

I STAND FULLY BEHIND OUR MILITARY. I SUPPORT OUR MILITARY 100%. THE JOB THEY ARE DOING IS SECOND TO NONE. WE ARE WINNING THE WAR. THEY ARE BRINGING THESE HATERS OF THE FREE WORLD TO JUSTICE. I COULNT BE PROUDER OF THESE BRAVE PEOPLE SERVING OUR GREAT COUNTRY. I STAND BEHIND AND SUPPORT OUR PRESIDENT- MR GEORGE W BUSH. AND I THINK HES DOING A GREAT JOB. I STAND FOR GOD, THE RIGHT TO LIFE, FOR FAMILY, AND FOR FREEDOM.

God bless

-curtins

January 14, 2005

[quote name='bookwyrm']Now, can we conduct a civilized debate without attacking each other?[/quote]
You haven't been here long, have you?

No, we cannot conduct a civilized debate here, because the conservative pseudo-Catholics (anyone who got offended by that comment: yes, it does mean YOU, by your own reaction to it) beat people who disagree with them to a bloody pulp with their encyclicals.

As for those of you who have showed, yes, [b]a total lack of compassion and Christian charity[/b] for people who were driven to suicide by the horrors of war which none of you have ever experienced: YOU DISGUST ME. You profane the name and image of Catholic Christianity with your pharisaical obedience to legalistic rules and regulations, while paying attention to nothing that Jesus actually said -- only what the latest pope has said, or what you [b]think[/b] he's said, or what you [b]wish[/b] he'd said. You are the people that drive people away from the Catholic Church, you are the kind of people who drive people away from Christianity altogether, because people see you, who claim to be the "Mystical Body of Christ" (what a JOKE!), acting the way you do and they say: "If they're supposed to be Jesus to the world, then Jesus must be pretty awful!"

I have been at Phatmass longer than most of the people on this thread, and what I've seen here has disgusted me over and over again. I will now likely be suspended permanently for calling a spade a spade (or a Pharisee a Pharisee), which is exactly what Jesus did (but that doesn't matter, because: "Who's Jesus? Was he a pope?"). What disgusts me more than anything is the deified figure of Ironmonk, the Phatmass idol-god, who is never suspended or punished for his outrageous behavior and his condescending attitude toward everyone here (and ESPECIALLY those who don't agree with him) because dUSt is biased against non-Catholics and Catholics who don't tow the Roman line enough, and Ironmonk is the perfect exterminator of those people -- Ironmonk pisses them off enough, and then they get outrageously angry (like I am right now), and then dUSt suspends them while letting him just keep doing what he's doing, driving people away from the Church and Christ and condemning himself again and again for his words and actions while also condeming dUSt, who has done an outstandingly LOUSY job of administrating this site, which is, by the way, about as "fair and balanced" as Fox News.

While you go on and on about how great you and yours are for accepting their responsibilities, and while Jesus shows ACTUAL compassion and welcomes even suicide VICTIMS into Heaven, I say with near-certainty that you will be less than amused and somewhat surprised when you get to Heaven and are told, "Depart from me . . ." I'd imagine your jaws will drop all the way to hell, and the rest of your body will soon follow. I'll see you there.

January 14, 2005

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Jan 13 2005, 01:51 AM'] Prayers for all our troops and their families. May they safetly return home.

As sad as it is, I agree with Kilroy. One doesn't join the military just to get free college and other bonuses. There is always the possibility of war, and always the possibility of being called to serve your country. [/quote]
I almost agree with you but something is differnent about this war. Firstly, it may be unjust (Cardianls have even hinted at that) and secondly it is poorly orginaized. We didn't set up the war to win the afterwar.

My dad's friend joined the Guard to pay for his nursing degree back in the 1980s. He deployed a few times (He had one tour in the 1st Iraq war) and he was excited about it. When he got home he was willing to go back if they needed him, he was having probly one of the best times of his life. He supported the Pres in the lead up to the war, he went to Iraq excited and he came home (only after having 3 surgeries because of a massive aorta blockage, they wouldn't let him go and his until has already been on a two year tour with a stop loss order) madder than anyone I have ever seen about this war and they way they were treated. A lot of people enlisted knowing they could have to serve in a way, but the way the Admin. is treating the troops isn't what was expected.

January 14, 2005

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jan 13 2005, 09:38 PM'] I almost agree with you but something is differnent about this war. Firstly, it may be unjust (Cardianls have even hinted at that) and secondly it is poorly orginaized. We didn't set up the war to win the afterwar. [/quote]
I do agree that the post-war mess is pretty messy (no pun intended). Left and right, more insurgents attack and make threats (and actual acts of violence) against Iraq's new government.

What is the US to do? If they just abandon ship and leave (after all, Saddam is out of power), people will be angry at America for abandoning a new country that can't survive on its own. If we stay behind and clean up the mess (as we are doing now, or at least trying to), we get accused of spreading OUR version of democracy and using Iraq as a puppet for our countries wants (and you can never forget the liberal's battle cry, "Bush is over there for the oil!")

America is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

January 14, 2005

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Jan 13 2005, 09:50 PM'] I do agree that the post-war mess is pretty messy (no pun intended). Left and right, more insurgents attack and make threats (and actual acts of violence) against Iraq's new government.

What is the US to do? If they just abandon ship and leave (after all, Saddam is out of power), people will be angry at America for abandoning a new country that can't survive on its own. If we stay behind and clean up the mess (as we are doing now, or at least trying to), we get accused of spreading OUR version of democracy and using Iraq as a puppet for our countries wants (and you can never forget the liberal's battle cry, "Bush is over there for the oil!")

America is stuck between a rock and a hard place. [/quote]
Bush was their for oil. Not anymore, his tail is inbetween his legs and he is running.

The problem is not that the post war mess is messy but that we never planned for the post war. We went in with too few troops according to many generals in the area, even Powell told Bush (the Great One) to wait for more troops to arrive. Bush didn't wait, because if he did he would have to wait a full year (they wanted to invade during the winter season). Thus we went in with too few troops. We weren't able to secure the nation (cough, we deployed troops at the oil ministery but not the muesum (which was looted)... hmmm, if Bush wasn't there for oil he has a lot of funnies going on) and to make matters worse, we debanded the Iraqi army.

The plan was to set up an American Ocupational Gov't which was done. However, they set it up and made it fully removed from the Iraqi people, hmmm this seems good. The Iraqi people had no legal recourse for any greivences.

We tried to run after giving some power over to the Iraqi forces (i.e. last March/Apr) which caused 3 cities to fall to the insugenice... :cough: Tet Offensive :cough:

Now, many of the generals in Iraq estmate that the insurgemence is bigger than the US forces at a rate of nearly two to one (200,000 insurgents and 115,000 US troops). We had a plan alright.

My point is that there should have been a plan, not that the US should cut and run. But the US will have to cut and run if this goes on for a year or more, Bush will never get a draft passed and we all know that "he never made a mistake" with the war, thus won't go feet kissing at the UN like he is going to have to in order to get more help.

January 14, 2005

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Jan 13 2005, 09:34 PM'] [quote name='bookwyrm']Now, can we conduct a civilized debate without attacking each other?[/quote]
You haven't been here long, have you?

No, we cannot conduct a civilized debate here, because the conservative pseudo-Catholics (anyone who got offended by that comment: yes, it does mean YOU, by your own reaction to it) beat people who disagree with them to a bloody pulp with their encyclicals.

As for those of you who have showed, yes, [b]a total lack of compassion and Christian charity[/b] for people who were driven to suicide by the horrors of war which none of you have ever experienced: YOU DISGUST ME. You profane the name and image of Catholic Christianity with your pharisaical obedience to legalistic rules and regulations, while paying attention to nothing that Jesus actually said -- only what the latest pope has said, or what you [b]think[/b] he's said, or what you [b]wish[/b] he'd said. You are the people that drive people away from the Catholic Church, you are the kind of people who drive people away from Christianity altogether, because people see you, who claim to be the "Mystical Body of Christ" (what a JOKE!), acting the way you do and they say: "If they're supposed to be Jesus to the world, then Jesus must be pretty awful!"

I have been at Phatmass longer than most of the people on this thread, and what I've seen here has disgusted me over and over again. I will now likely be suspended permanently for calling a spade a spade (or a Pharisee a Pharisee), which is exactly what Jesus did (but that doesn't matter, because: "Who's Jesus? Was he a pope?"). What disgusts me more than anything is the deified figure of Ironmonk, the Phatmass idol-god, who is never suspended or punished for his outrageous behavior and his condescending attitude toward everyone here (and ESPECIALLY those who don't agree with him) because dUSt is biased against non-Catholics and Catholics who don't tow the Roman line enough, and Ironmonk is the perfect exterminator of those people -- Ironmonk pisses them off enough, and then they get outrageously angry (like I am right now), and then dUSt suspends them while letting him just keep doing what he's doing, driving people away from the Church and Christ and condemning himself again and again for his words and actions while also condeming dUSt, who has done an outstandingly LOUSY job of administrating this site, which is, by the way, about as "fair and balanced" as Fox News.

While you go on and on about how great you and yours are for accepting their responsibilities, and while Jesus shows ACTUAL compassion and welcomes even suicide VICTIMS into Heaven, I say with near-certainty that you will be less than amused and somewhat surprised when you get to Heaven and are told, "Depart from me . . ." I'd imagine your jaws will drop all the way to hell, and the rest of your body will soon follow. I'll see you there. [/quote]
Good Friday, your post disgusts me!

Its absurd accusations and complete lack of any semblence to Christian charity are beyond belief.

You hurl these outrages at people simply because they disagree with your political views (We all disagree with each other here, that's why it's a [b]debate[/b] table!) You tell people to go to hell (very Christian!) and then complain about lakc of Christian charity!

And you complain about hypocrisy!?

I'll be sure to pray for your soul.

(And IronMonk rules! He's no idol-god, but he still rules! )

January 14, 2005

Bumped for dUSt and the moderators, who are evidently sleeping on the job.

January 14, 2005

Good Friday-

since when are you the judge of who goes to heaven and hell??? and no one here is not showing compassion towards the soldier that killed himself. You are just trying to make up asinine arguments to further your politcal cause which is helpless, pathetic, and even more asinine than your arguments.

Dont bring dust into this- id like to see you admin a site as awsome as phatmass. plus dust is awsome. stop talkin trash about ironmonk just cause you know hes right.
If you dont like phatmass- leave
If you dont like america- leave

but dont bring others into your anti american, all phatmassers are evil, libral, cyclone of death

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