Trolls

[Lil Red]

[u][b]What is a troll?[/b][/u]

The term "troll" can have a double meaning, related to fishing and ugly monsters. Both are appropriate.

"Troll," in the context of message boards and the like, describes somebody who is posting just to be confrontational or to raise hackles. One example might be a teenager who finds a Jewish message board and posts, "The Holocaust never happened." [b]The teen may not know or care one way or the other--he just wants a reaction. He wants to piss people off. He is a troll.[/b]

There are more subtle trolling techniques as well. One Internet dictionary (www.whatis.com) gives a real example in which somebody posted about "the discovery of an ancient African carving containing a list of prime numbers." The poster listed some of the prime numbers supposedly on the carving, some of which weren't actually primes. People who saw the message, thinking he was serious, responded with corrections. The troll then announced that those who spent their time responding to him had been "hooked."

That suggests how the term got its start. Trolling, to those who don't spend all their time in front of the computer, is a method of fishing where you trail bait through the water from a slow-moving boat hoping to hook an unwary fish. An online troll does much the same.

The other meaning of troll--a brutish monster who lives under a bridge--likely didn't have much to do with the origin of the term. But at an early stage it was conflated with the other sense of trolling for obvious reasons: [b]if you've dealt much with trolls, you know you're dealing with some pretty ugly minds.[/b]

To be fair, not all trolls are slimeballs. On some message boards, veteran posters with a mischievous bent occasionally go "newbie trolling." On the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, as of a few years ago anyway, it was fairly common for pranksters to post known urban legends as fact in hopes of getting novice users to go, "No, REALLY?" Gotcha, sucker.

The main point about trolls is that they intentionally mislead others. As the Free Online Dictionary of Computing (http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.c gi?troll) notes, "[b]Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their minds."[/b]

"Troll" is often flung about too casually. If somebody is simply ignorant or obtuse, it's incorrect to call him a troll. Admittedly, it's not always easy to distinguish between someone pretending to be wrong and someone who is wrong and doesn't know it or won't admit it.

How does one deal with trolls? That depends on your personality, the overall disposition of the message board, and the type of message board you're using.

There are two kinds of message boards: moderated and unmoderated. On unmoderated MBs such as most Usenet newsgroups, no one is in charge and there is no way to prevent a troll from posting short of persuading his Internet service provider to cancel his account. Moderated boards offer more control--truly egregious trolls can be banned and their posts deleted. But most board moderators, including those at the SDMB, reserve that sanction for extreme cases. A post I consider trolling someone else may find thought-provoking. Too quick a finger on the "delete" button and you open yourself to charges of censorship.

Besides, this is the Internet, the closest we've come to a free marketplace of ideas. The prevailing ethic here is that it's best to let everyone have his say, and rely on the good sense of other participants to sort out sound ideas from stupid ones. Which means it all comes down to you.

Many people feel trolls should simply be ignored, and some message boards have evolved their own private codes to warn off other users. (On the SDMB, one such code is DNFTT, "do not feed the trolls"). But others dislike the idea of giving trolls free rein.

On the SDMB, Cecil's goal of fighting ignorance is generally the guiding principle. If somebody posts misinformation, other users feel obliged to point it out. I'm sure some trolls delight in getting others to respond in this way, but the choice is either that or let a troll's posts stand unchallenged. Ignoring obvious nonsense has some advantages, but what about naive users who may read the falsehood and, seeing nothing to rebut it, believe it? To prevent that, some advocate responding to trolls once and only once. You refute the misinformation and that's that. Of course, this is often easier said than done, and many people (myself included) simply cannot sit idly by while the troll gleefully continues to post BS.

The other option is to pounce on every last falsehood and fabrication. This can lead to a classic flame war. We've had threads on the SDMB with close to a thousand posts as users attempt to get in the last word with an obstinate troll. These battles can be exhilarating but also exhausting. Inevitably at some point you ask yourself: what's the point?

In short, you've got two possibilities--ignore the troll or argue with him. My recommendation is as follows: If the person is a well-known troll with low credibility, post once to point out the flaws and then ignore him. If there's a real chance he may fool people who don't know better, knock him down with facts.

[url="http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mtroll.html"]Source[/url]

[Lil Red]

more helpful information here: [url="http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm"]http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm[/url]

[Birgitta Noel]

Is there a troll around that I've missed?






Runs off to look for said troll........

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

The pope smells of elderberries. All you Catholics worship Mary.


(runs away and watches)

[spathariossa]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Jan 14 2005, 01:40 AM'] The pope smells of elderberries. All you Catholics worship Mary.


(runs away and watches) [/quote]
Yeah. And?

[Birgitta Noel]

HAHAHAHA






You're not the troll. I think I've found him and you're not him. Now, apologize before you get warned! :nono:

[Guest]

troll

[journeyman]

The Three Billy Goats Gruff

Norway

Once upon a time there were three billy goats, who were to go up to the hillside to make themselves fat, and the name of all three was "Gruff."

On the way up was a bridge over a cascading stream they had to cross; and under the bridge lived a great ugly troll , with eyes as big as saucers, and a nose as long as a poker.

So first of all came the youngest Billy Goat Gruff to cross the bridge.

"Trip, trap, trip, trap! " went the bridge.

"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll .

"Oh, it is only I, the tiniest Billy Goat Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to make myself fat," said the billy goat, with such a small voice.

"Now, I'm coming to gobble you up," said the troll.

"Oh, no! pray don't take me. I'm too little, that I am," said the billy goat. "Wait a bit till the second Billy Goat Gruff comes. He's much bigger."

"Well, be off with you," said the troll.

A little while after came the second Billy Goat Gruff to cross the bridge.

Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap, went the bridge.

"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll.

"Oh, it's the second Billy Goat Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to make myself fat," said the billy goat, who hadn't such a small voice.

"Now I'm coming to gobble you up," said the troll.

"Oh, no! Don't take me. Wait a little till the big Billy Goat Gruff comes. He's much bigger."

"Very well! Be off with you," said the troll.

But just then up came the big Billy Goat Gruff .

Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap! went the bridge, for the billy goat was so heavy that the bridge creaked and groaned under him.

"Who's that tramping over my bridge?" roared the troll.

"It's I! The big Billy Goat Gruff ," said the billy goat, who had an ugly hoarse voice of his own.

"Now I 'm coming to gobble you up," roared the troll.

Well, come along! I've got two spears,
And I'll poke your eyeballs out at your ears;
I've got besides two curling-stones,
And I'll crush you to bits, body and bones.


That was what the big billy goat said. And then he flew at the troll, and poked his eyes out with his horns, and crushed him to bits, body and bones, and tossed him out into the cascade, and after that he went up to the hillside. There the billy goats got so fat they were scarcely able to walk home again. And if the fat hasn't fallen off them, why, they're still fat; and so,

Snip, snap, snout.
This tale's told out.

[delta557]

I have never really made the connection whenever I go fishing. I just think of trolling and how it relates to fish. When I'm not fishing, it refers to monsters. Guess I've never thought about putting the two together...

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I despise internet trolls.

[Pope St Clement 1]

[quote name='journeyman' date='Jan 15 2005, 03:54 AM']The Three Billy Goats Gruff

Norway

Once upon a time there were three billy goats, who were to go up to the hillside to make themselves fat, and the name of all three was "Gruff."

On the way up was a bridge over a cascading stream they had to cross; and under the bridge lived a great ugly troll , with eyes as big as saucers, and a nose as long as a poker.

So first of all came the youngest Billy Goat Gruff to cross the bridge.

"Trip, trap, trip, trap! " went the bridge.

"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll .

"Oh, it is only I, the tiniest Billy Goat Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to make myself fat," said the billy goat, with such a small voice.

"Now, I'm coming to gobble you up," said the troll.

"Oh, no! pray don't take me. I'm too little, that I am," said the billy goat. "Wait a bit till the second Billy Goat Gruff comes. He's much bigger."

"Well, be off with you," said the troll.

A little while after came the second Billy Goat Gruff to cross the bridge.

Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap, went the bridge.

"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll.

"Oh, it's the second Billy Goat Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to make myself fat," said the billy goat, who hadn't such a small voice.

"Now I'm coming to gobble you up," said the troll.

"Oh, no! Don't take me. Wait a little till the big Billy Goat Gruff comes. He's much bigger."

"Very well! Be off with you," said the troll.

But just then up came the big Billy Goat Gruff .

Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap! went the bridge, for the billy goat was so heavy that the bridge creaked and groaned under him.

"Who's that tramping over my bridge?" roared the troll.

"It's I! The big Billy Goat Gruff ," said the billy goat, who had an ugly hoarse voice of his own.

"Now I 'm coming to gobble you up," roared the troll.

Well, come along! I've got two spears,
And I'll poke your eyeballs out at your ears;
I've got besides two curling-stones,
And I'll crush you to bits, body and bones.


That was what the big billy goat said. And then he flew at the troll, and poked his eyes out with his horns, and crushed him to bits, body and bones, and tossed him out into the cascade, and after that he went up to the hillside. There the billy goats got so fat they were scarcely able to walk home again. And if the fat hasn't fallen off them, why, they're still fat; and so,

Snip, snap, snout.
This tale's told out.[/quote]
I have 2 files of felt stories for the Child Care Centre where I'm a carer and this is one of the stories. Man, I wish I had a dollar for each time they've asked me to do "The Three Billy Goats Gruff" - I'd be a millionaire !!!

It's near the back of the main file and every chosen child would keep going through the file (Me -"That one" - "No", "The Little Red Hen" - "No", "The House That Jack Built") until they reached the "Three Billy Goats Gruff" and down would go the finger - "THAT ONE !!!".

Now they're choosing different ones but, boy, for so long it was always "The Three Billy Goats Gruff".

I've found it fun sometimes to give the characters names of the children ("The Smallest Billy Goat Gruff whose name was Luke"). The boys mostly wanted to be the biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

Only thing is the story I've been telling is slighly different from yours (The biggest Billy Goat Gruff just butts him up into the air and into the water and the goats say "I've got a brother coming along who's bigger, fatter and juicier than me - you can eat him", plus they look for another mountain because they've eaten up all the grass on their first one).

Now the kids are requesting a different ending - the troll was just pretending with the other two and goes up the green mountain to play and eat grass with the Billy Goats Gruff.

I think I could do the Three Billy Goats Gruff backwards now !

Thanks for the story Doug, and for reminding me of the joy kids bring.


God bless you!
Robert

Edited January 15, 2005 by Pope St Clement 1

[JazzforJesus]

intresting its also in fishing, proves i dont fish much

[rachael]

i thought we were talking about micah

[JazzforJesus]

there are more trolls than micah

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='rachael' date='Feb 6 2005, 09:38 PM'] i thought we were talking about micah [/quote]
Yeah! :angry: I feel left out now!

[JazzforJesus]

its ok micah, i dont think your a troll, but i do know they are out there cause of the informative post

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='JazzforJesus' date='Feb 7 2005, 01:56 PM'] its ok micah, i dont think your a troll, but i do know they are out there cause of the informative post [/quote]
But I wanna be a troll...

[Birgitta Noel]

Ok, ok, you're a troll. Feel better now?

[curtins]

ill be the first one to admit it- imma troll!!!!!!!!! its funny!!!!!!!!!!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

bump