jmjtina Posted January 22, 2005 Posted January 22, 2005 funny how we are so quick to encourage married priests and women yet ignore the young men who are already in our parishes who will hold fast the teachings of Christ. There are plenty of young men in our own parishes, yet it is a fight against society. Our parish is getting rid of all girl altar servers already and our priest and the youth ministry is doing all we can to help the young boys in our parish. you don't have to look in other places. The answer to this problem is literally under our noses.
jmjtina Posted January 22, 2005 Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 21 2005, 12:19 PM'] I don't think the primary problem here really has anything to do with marriage and celibacy requirements. The Church has required priests to be celibate through most of her history, and throught most of that time there has been no shortage of vocations. The problem is the state of the Church as a whole. The problem is that many contemporary Catholics just don't take the Faith very seriously. They pick and choose what beliefs or practices they want to follow. They don't go to mass regularly. They don't receive the Sacrament of Penance. The Faith plays little part in their lives. So of course they are not going to be willing to give their lives to God as priests! Among solid, orthodox diocese, parishes, etc., vocations are flourishing. Where there is Faith, there are vocations. Where there is not Faith, there are not vocations. [/quote] exactly. We have alot of work to do.
hyperdulia again Posted January 23, 2005 Author Posted January 23, 2005 I don't see anyone discouraging these young men, I don't even see where anyone has endorsed women priests. I certainly don't discourage young men from the priesthood, we're (my sister and I) paying one's way through the seminary! lol
Good Friday Posted January 23, 2005 Posted January 23, 2005 I've not said anything about female priests, and I'm not going to do, although I'm sure you can all guess what my position on that is (the one opposite of the Vatican). But I will acknowledge that married priests and female priests are two different situations. The ordination of married men could easily be accomplished, since mandatory celibacy is discipline rather than doctrine; the ordination of women is much more complicated since the Vatican maintains that it is related to the doctrine of holy orders rather than simple discipline. There is no conceivable reason why the discipline of mandatory celibacy could not be overturned. Whether or not this should be done is yet to be determined, but I think a serious discussion should take place. As for encouraging young men to pursue a vocation to the priesthood with mandatory celibacy, I'm all for it. I've certainly never said that we shouldn't. Of course, I don't think that means we should exclude girls from altar service -- since the Vatican says that it's okay, there is no reason except misogyny to exclude women from altar service.
spathariossa Posted January 23, 2005 Posted January 23, 2005 [quote name='jmjtina' date='Jan 22 2005, 05:44 PM'] funny how we are so quick to encourage married priests and women yet ignore the young men who are already in our parishes who will hold fast the teachings of Christ. There are plenty of young men in our own parishes, yet it is a fight against society. Our parish is getting rid of all girl altar servers already and our priest and the youth ministry is doing all we can to help the young boys in our parish. you don't have to look in other places. The answer to this problem is literally under our noses. [/quote] So getting rid of Girl Altar servers is a good thing?? I fail to see why that's the case if the Vatican has given approval for the practice. I guess we should just keep those little girls in their place though...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 23, 2005 Posted January 23, 2005 so long as all the priests involved in the discussion understand it won't mean they can get married or anything. it's about ordaining married men being alright. we would need to radically restructure the Catholic Culture in the west, but the thing is: it is in quite a need of restructuring because of the crises (and not just the vocation shortage, the ORTHODOXY shortage). Eastern married priests work because their communities are centered around the family of the priest. It is not feasable to put this in the West without restructuring the culture. That includes a lot more orthodoxy and a lot more tight-knit of a Catholic community. Otherwise we're going to end up simply adopting a protestant practice. Everyone knows the stereotypes about a pastor's kid and stuff, and the high divorce rate of protestant pastors...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 23, 2005 Posted January 23, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 22 2005, 09:31 PM'] So getting rid of Girl Altar servers is a good thing?? I fail to see why that's the case if the Vatican has given approval for the practice. I guess we should just keep those little girls in their place though... [/quote] it's not about 'putting girls in their place' so much as it is promoting men to become priests. it is a fact that the Church has always used altar boys as a pool for potential priestly vocations. and when there's girls, guys don't see it as anything special. girls are notoriously more prone to volunteer for stuff.
jmjtina Posted January 23, 2005 Posted January 23, 2005 (edited) [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 22 2005, 09:31 PM'] So getting rid of Girl Altar servers is a good thing?? I fail to see why that's the case if the Vatican has given approval for the practice. I guess we should just keep those little girls in their place though... [/quote] Yes it is a good thing that my parish priest is enforcing. We are working for more holy vocations in the parish particularly for priests, and if doing away with girl altar servers is something we need to do as a parish so be it. We volunteer for everything as Al said. (I'm a girl as well and used to be an altar server) Lectors, youth ministry, CDA, you name it, we are SO there! We don't discourage them from participating, we encourage them to participate in other areas of the Church. The Altar boys are specifically going through more training and retreats to help them in thier spiritual lives, free from distraction while serving the sanctuary in hopes of fostering more priests from the parish. And we also have a bunch of old ladies praying for vocations as well. The Vatican says it's okay to have them, not that it's mandatory to have them. Edited January 23, 2005 by jmjtina
Guest Aluigi Posted January 23, 2005 Posted January 23, 2005 and they could change their mind anytime they want
spathariossa Posted January 23, 2005 Posted January 23, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 22 2005, 09:38 PM'] it's not about 'putting girls in their place' so much as it is promoting men to become priests. it is a fact that the Church has always used altar boys as a pool for potential priestly vocations. and when there's girls, guys don't see it as anything special. girls are notoriously more prone to volunteer for stuff. [/quote] That's really true. I wonder why that is? Hmmm
Fidei Defensor Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 My priest was talking about the shortage at mass a few sundays ago. He was talking about in the past how most catholic families were larger so usually atleast one child would go into service of the church. but now these days with the acceptance of contraceptives, families are smaller and less kids are going to the church. I guess thats dealing with faith in the church teachings then.
MagiDragon Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jan 23 2005, 08:39 PM']My priest was talking about the shortage at mass a few sundays ago. He was talking about in the past how most catholic families were larger so usually atleast one child would go into service of the church. but now these days with the acceptance of contraceptives, families are smaller and less kids are going to the church. I guess thats dealing with faith in the church teachings then.[/quote] wow, your priest rocks! that's awesome that you have a priest that will come right out and say that! (Otoh . . . no one in my extended family contracepts and there haven't been any priests or nuns yet . . . but i'm one of the oldest at 22 . . . give us time Peace, Joe
Fidei Defensor Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 Haha yea, except he is going on vacation tomorrow.. lol. The other priest today said at the end of mass "Father is going on vacation tomorrow for a week, so after mass, you all have my permission to stick your tounge out at him on the way out" haha yea mass rocks
toledo_jesus Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 the priest shortage is a result of people choosing their wants over God's call. I think that any faithful Catholic man at some point wonders if he has a calling. Some choose not to discern it, others do realize they have a calling and ignore it. The problem [i]is[/i] our culture, one that glorifies service to oneself rather than service to God. The desires of a person are valued over the desires of God. Men are not encouraged to join the priesthood, they are encouraged to drink beer, fornicate, and get a high paying job. This is a Catholic culture problem.
Socrates Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 (edited) [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Jan 23 2005, 10:49 PM'] Men are not encouraged to join the priesthood, they are encouraged to drink beer, fornicate, and get a high paying job. This is a Catholic culture problem. [/quote] What's wrong with drinking beer? (I'm drinking a beer at this very moment! LOL!) Edited January 24, 2005 by Socrates
MagiDragon Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Jan 23 2005, 10:49 PM'] the priest shortage is a result of people choosing their wants over God's call. I think that any faithful Catholic man at some point wonders if he has a calling. Some choose not to discern it, others do realize they have a calling and ignore it. The problem [i]is[/i] our culture, one that glorifies service to oneself rather than service to God. The desires of a person are valued over the desires of God. Men are not encouraged to join the priesthood, they are encouraged to drink beer, fornicate, and get a high paying job. This is a Catholic culture problem. [/quote] Yes. It's too bad. We wanted to be like the Protestants in the 50's, now you can't tell us apart from the way we act. *sigh* I wonder what it's like to have a strong Catholic culture.
jezic Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 [quote name='jmjtina' date='Jan 23 2005, 12:03 AM'] Yes it is a good thing that my parish priest is enforcing. We are working for more holy vocations in the parish particularly for priests, and if doing away with girl altar servers is something we need to do as a parish so be it. We volunteer for everything as Al said. (I'm a girl as well and used to be an altar server) Lectors, youth ministry, CDA, you name it, we are SO there! We don't discourage them from participating, we encourage them to participate in other areas of the Church. The Altar boys are specifically going through more training and retreats to help them in thier spiritual lives, free from distraction while serving the sanctuary in hopes of fostering more priests from the parish. And we also have a bunch of old ladies praying for vocations as well. The Vatican says it's okay to have them, not that it's mandatory to have them. [/quote] Why is it a bad thing?? We have never needed more vocations. God has given us plenty. What we need is more people to answer that call and actually go for it. Besides here i think there are guys that volunteer for stuff to. They just have to have someone to break them out of their shell.
Winchester Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 If you want married priests, change rites.
Guest Aluigi Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 it used to be a special thing for boys to do. it used to cultivate vocations. and now it isn't. it doesn't.
Apotheoun Posted January 24, 2005 Posted January 24, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 23 2005, 10:33 PM'] it used to be a special thing for boys to do. it used to cultivate vocations. and now it isn't. it doesn't. [/quote] In line with the constant and universal tradition of the Church, the Eastern Rites do not permit women to serve at the altar.
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