Guest Aluigi Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Capitalism is wrong but we cannot join the masses who oppose it because they oppose the Church for the same reasons they oppose it. Distributism is better than it all. In distributism, everyone gets the right to private property, and they ought to own their means of production. Under capitalism, the pizza maker works for a pizza hut, simply selling themself and their time into slavery for the corporation. Under distributism, the pizza maker would own his own pizza oven. See what happens, he turns from a mere wage-slave into an entrepreneur. The farmer owns his land, the teacher owns his classroom, et cetera. Doing away with privtate property is not the answer, you simply have to increase availablility of property. If the pizza maker works with his pizza oven, he'll make money to better his life and he'll be able to keep his own pizza oven. Anyway, so let's look at the local McDonald's. Perfect example of the crappy corporatist franchising existence we live in. In distributism, the local McDonald's is now OWNED by the manager there (not accountable to any corporate office or anything). It become's Mike's Burger Place. Mike now owns his own restaurant. So does steve who owns the McDonald's in the other town. It's Steve's Restaurant. Ideally, the cooks there would own the ovens (but that is not applicable in every profession). Illegalize francizes and multiple locations of businesses, and you have your small business society. Instead of class warfare and doing away with all classes, you've just made tons more people in the high class and brought a more personal relationship betwee the high and low class (because it's all local small business). People see the error of Capitalism, but they're too quick to try to correct it by taking away private property. They don't realize it's just another form of slavery just like capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 20 2005, 09:46 PM'] Capitalism is wrong but we cannot join the masses who oppose it because they oppose the Church for the same reasons they oppose it. Distributism is better than it all. In distributism, everyone gets the right to private property, and they ought to own their means of production. Under capitalism, the pizza maker works for a pizza hut, simply selling themself and their time into slavery for the corporation. Under distributism, the pizza maker would own his own pizza oven. See what happens, he turns from a mere wage-slave into an entrepreneur. The farmer owns his land, the teacher owns his classroom, et cetera. Doing away with privtate property is not the answer, you simply have to increase availablility of property. If the pizza maker works with his pizza oven, he'll make money to better his life and he'll be able to keep his own pizza oven. Anyway, so let's look at the local McDonald's. Perfect example of the crappy corporatist franchising existence we live in. In distributism, the local McDonald's is now OWNED by the manager there (not accountable to any corporate office or anything). It become's Mike's Burger Place. Mike now owns his own restaurant. So does steve who owns the McDonald's in the other town. It's Steve's Restaurant. Ideally, the cooks there would own the ovens (but that is not applicable in every profession). Illegalize francizes and multiple locations of businesses, and you have your small business society. Instead of class warfare and doing away with all classes, you've just made tons more people in the high class and brought a more personal relationship betwee the high and low class (because it's all local small business). People see the error of Capitalism, but they're too quick to try to correct it by taking away private property. They don't realize it's just another form of slavery just like capitalism. [/quote] Oh, what a pleasant surprise. I agree perfectly with Aloysius. This is a great day. :skitzo: *runs off and gets worried he's become a republican* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Al, that's the first reasonably presented description of distributism that I have encountered. Thank you. My opposition to that ideal is not one of moral opposition; rather, it is simply not feasible. It cannot be a morally binding proposition if it is absolutely impossible to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) I could see saying that it's not feasable, and maybe it'd never be a feasable government policy in today's world, but I have a plan to try to convert Capitalism. Look out for a big business comin on the horizon named Belloc Enterprises. It'll be big and capitalist, but good capitalist of course. But it's gonna change the economic environement as we know it! I think it's time to make a thread on the Virtue of the Distributist Just to fulfill all PhatMass righteousness Edited January 21, 2005 by Aluigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeds Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I agree with socialism in many respects so I voted socialist. Perhaps I am a distributist but I was confused by it being included with monarchist. I am sooo anti-monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='Deeds' date='Jan 21 2005, 06:02 PM'] I agree with socialism in many respects so I voted socialist. Perhaps I am a distributist but I was confused by it being included with monarchist. I am sooo anti-monarchy. [/quote] Deeds, socialism has been strongly condemned by the Church in several Church documents. It denies man's right to own property. I t is also a failed economic theory. There have already been lengthy debates on this issue. I would strongly suggest you read the threads on this phorum: "The Sin of Socialism," "The Sin of Capitalism," and "Political Slant and Being Catholic." "No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true Socialist." ~ Pope Pius XI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) See threads:[list] [*]"The Sin of the Socialist" [*]"The Sin of the Capitalism" [*]"The Virtue of the Distributist" [/list] <also titles that may be coming out as books through the publishing branch of Belloc Enterprises> Let this poll die, the thread can keep discussion though. Edited January 22, 2005 by Aluigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjvail Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 20 2005, 09:04 PM'] OK, my poll smells of elderberries! It's pretty poorly worded I think. Everybody forget I ever posted the darn thing! The basic reason I set it up was to sort of get a feel for the general "political demographics" of this site. Some have complained phatmass is overwhelmingly conservative/Republican. But I persoally have felt that this is not really true and that there are quite a variety of views on this site. Since I can't just delete the poll, I'll try to clarify: Conservative: General American sense of the term - "right-wing" Republican to Constitution Party. Or Thatcherite Brit Liberal: General American sense of the term: left-leaning, Democrat. Socialist: Hard Left, socialist Distributist/etc.: - Medieval-type politics - those who are radically opposed to all modernity (think Don John) Libertarian: Gov't should be extremely limited. Privatize everything. Anarchist: All government is evil and should be done away with [/quote] Distributist/etc.: - Medieval-type politics - those who are radically opposed to all modernity (think Don John) Libertarian: Gov't should be extremely limited. Privatize everything. I'm stuck between these two. That's actually not as bad as it sounds. I'm not sympathetic to the American left leaning libertarians that seem most interested in legalizing dope but rather I read some of the Austrian ancho/capitalist material, particularly Hans-Hermann Hoppe's [u]Democracy : The God that Failed[/u] it's a anarchist/libertarian case for monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 As far as i go, i would call myself liberal. I wonder how to fix the american government or change it enough for it to stop sucking. I don't know if it is possible. I would favor something like the us but with many different things, unless people want me to explain i willjust let my political ideas lie for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirMyztiq Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 What?! I thought I was the ONLY liberal! I believe in discovery, advancement, freedom, love, respect and a clear perspective of human understanding. I believe in helping those in need, protecting our wild life, choice and satisfaction. The complete opposite of conservative thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjvail Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='SirMyztiq' date='Jan 21 2005, 09:16 PM'] What?! I thought I was the ONLY liberal! I believe in discovery, advancement, freedom, love, respect and a clear perspective of human understanding. I believe in helping those in need, protecting our wild life, choice and satisfaction. The complete opposite of conservative thinking. [/quote] If you believe this you don't even know what conservatism is. Try a little less NPR propoganda in your diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Oh gosh, we've got two new wingers on our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 crusader, hate to let you know, but you're an upside-down-and-to-the-right winger as a distributist See, here's the thing, I think it's a big circle, everyone's all right left or middle. but you go far enough left you'll end up right, far enough right you'll end up left. I really have to make my circle diagram. But I am proudly an upside-down-and-to-the-right winger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Somethin like this... lol [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/837215/circle.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Should Anarchy go in the bottom left or would that not fit into the category of economic systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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