Why Protestantism?

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

I've seen many threads with the theme of 'Why Catholicism?'


Well..I'd like to return the question to our Protestant brothers and sisters.


Why Protestantism? What is it that keeps you out of the church, and in Protestantism?


Is it a doctrine that you find against scripture? Is it hesitation? Why remain Protestant and not come into the Church?

[Catalyst]

Because tons of Catholic doctrine(catechism) and rituals contadict the bible.

Its why people protested, because people fell away from the true meaning of church as foretold in 2 timothy I believe.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 30 2005, 09:09 PM'] Because tons of Catholic doctrine(catechism) and rituals contadict the bible.

Its why people protested, because people fell away from the true meaning of church as foretold in 2 timothy I believe. [/quote]
So then you believe that the Gates of Hell prevailed?

[Catalyst]

How can they prevail when they have already been defeated on calvary? The roman church CHOSE to go another direction. So its obviosly not His church....

Edited January 31, 2005 by Catalyst

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 30 2005, 09:13 PM'] How can they prevail when they have already been defeated on calvary? The roman church CHOSE to go another direction. So its obviosly not His church.... [/quote]
It's simply that Christ said that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. You said that people had fallen away, and in the context of a whole Church, that makes it sound like you believe that the Gates of Hell prevailed. The prophecy in Timothy was in reference to individuals...you can't refute a whole Church based on that.

[Catalyst]

individuals comprise the church. There was a protestant movement for a reason. Its not for any other reason than realising how far the roman catholic church strayed from the truth. They opperated in thier own power far too often....ever heard of the spanish inquisition? just one example

[XIX]

Examples of Catholic rituals that contradict the Bible?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 30 2005, 09:34 PM'] individuals comprise the church. There was a protestant movement for a reason. Its not for any other reason than realising how far the roman catholic church strayed from the truth. They opperated in thier own power far too often....ever heard of the spanish inquisition? just one example [/quote]
The actions of sinners do not define the actions of the Church. The Church is made of sinners...but that does not mean that the Church is a sinner. By your standards, any church, sect, denomination, etc. which contains a single sinner is invalid.

[StColette]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jan 30 2005, 09:02 PM'] The Church is made of sinners.. [/quote]
sry lol to cut in like this on a serious discussion but I've been watching, and when I read this statement it reminded me of this quote:

"A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for Saints. L. L. Nash "

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='StColette' date='Jan 30 2005, 10:06 PM'] sry lol to cut in like this on a serious discussion but I've been watching, and when I read this statement it reminded me of this quote:

"A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for Saints. L. L. Nash " [/quote]
Exactly.

If what determines whether a Church is real is the actions of its individual members, instead of its doctrines and traditions, by which it proclaims the truth it holds, then the Church Christ founded was itself flawed from the beginning, since St. Paul calls himself the worst of all sinners.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 30 2005, 09:09 PM'] Because tons of Catholic doctrine(catechism) and rituals contadict the bible.

Its why people protested, because people fell away from the true meaning of church as foretold in 2 timothy I believe. [/quote]
Clearly you are unacquainted with simple facts of history. For this cause apologist Karl Keating has a list of very short tracts to introduce you to basic history:

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/anti_catholicism.asp"]Apologetic Tracts[/url]

Luther was a mentally unstable monk who threw his feces around and did not have any idea how to approach the injustices that were currently eating away at the Church. Others such as St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross worked from a proper position at correcting the errors in practices of the time. It is important to note that all "Protest" was centered around practice and not doctrine. It is only later, after Luther went unheard that he began to attack doctrine, but even in his mentally unstable state, Luther himself knew that no break he would make with the Church was meant to "last for a long period."

I suggest also the short booklet "Roots of the Reformation" by Karl Adam and if you are into more in depth reading you can always try "History of the Church" by Lortz or "Upon this Rock" by Ray.

That said, have you actually read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Even the Baltimore or Roman Catechism would suffice as a good starting point for interreligious dialogue as the Catechism of the Catholic Church is lengthy. I've read and studied the entire Catechism though and am more than happy to explain any points that you would propagate have apparent "contradictions" in scripture. However, any discussion would have to be made in the spirit of having an open mind, and not just simply blind prejudice. I am grateful to those who seek understanding without blindly attacking.

All Catholic doctrine is intimately rooted in the Word of God. Even Miriam doctrine, Eucharistic doctrine, Eschatology, all lead back to the Christocentricity of the Word.

If you are here only to be an antagonist, your efforts are futile, but if you are here in the spirit of love and learning, then welcome.

Deut. 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Edited January 31, 2005 by Brother Adam

[jezic]

so luther was unstable that explains a lot. I never knew that. Honestly. That may be why he was so nutty. I always wondered about that ......

I have another question. Forget church doctrine for a second. How can someone live without the sacraments. For me they are a vital part of life. Even if i didn't understand much of the doctrine behind them, they are still way to important to not have.

ok bring back church doctrine.

[jezic]

ohh i did forget,

if you believe that Catholic doctrine goes against the Bible, i would encourage you to start reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church and look up the verses that are referenced. They follow near exactly what the Bible says.

[mulls]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jan 30 2005, 08:49 PM'] Why Protestantism? What is it that keeps you out of the church, and in Protestantism? [/quote]
Kirk Cameron.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='mulls' date='Jan 30 2005, 10:58 PM'] Kirk Cameron. [/quote]
Kirk Cameron? The same one who got the show [i]Growing Pains[/i] cancelled when he went to tell the producers that he wouldn't do it anymore and began calling them pornographers because they had him dating on the show in a very innocent way?

[Justified Saint]

It is probably the same Kirk who played in those [i]Left Behind[/i] movies too. Not the best track record for sure.

[Tink]

[quote name=' XIX']Examples of Catholic rituals that contradict the Bible? [/quote]

I second that request.

[mulls]

[quote name='Justified Saint' date='Jan 30 2005, 11:16 PM'] Kirk Cameron? The same one who got the show Growing Pains cancelled when he went to tell the producers that he wouldn't do it anymore and began calling them pornographers because they had him dating on the show in a very innocent way?



It is probably the same Kirk who played in those [i]Left Behind[/i] movies too. Not the best track record for sure. [/quote]
yea. he's cool.



i'm also in it for the mega-churches and televangelism.

[Joseph]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 30 2005, 08:09 PM'] Because tons of Catholic doctrine(catechism) and rituals contadict the bible.

Its why people protested, because people fell away from the true meaning of church as foretold in 2 timothy I believe. [/quote]
How in the world does Catholic doctrine and practices contradict a Catholic book (the Bible)? The Bible didn't appear out of nowhere. Who decided what writings to put in the book? Everything fits so perfectly if you take the time to unlearn whatever assumptions you already have in your mind. Study what the true teachings are from Catholic sources, not Protestant, and you will find the fullness of truth. I found it.

And another thing about Luther...he suffered from scrupulousity, among other things. What better way to rid yourself of that fault by leaving the Church and leaving confession behind along with everything else. Don't like something about Church teaching? Form your own church.

It's funny how Luther also wanted to get rid of Revelation along with the other books. All those wacky fundamentalists would've been lost without it; there would be no [i]Left Behind[/i] books or movies! Good thing others made Luther put it back it in the canon, or Kirk Cameron wouldn't have had any movies to film in the last couple years!

Edited January 31, 2005 by Joseph

[argent_paladin]

I will weigh in since I converted from AofG to Catholicism after reading the CCC (and my father is an ordained Southern Baptist Minister). Although there were of course doctrinal differences between the early reformers and the Church, this was nothing new. What was new was that it was exploited by rulers who wanted an excuse to be politically independent from the Empire and from Rome. Protestantism, with its emphasis on individuality and dislike of centralization, was perfect. The strongest support for the reformation being more about politics than about theology is the English reformation. Catholicism in England was thriving and Henry was named "Defender of the Faith" for his zeal in defending Catholicism from its critics. Henry simply wanted to indulge his lust (and need for an heir) so he started his own Church. This was not a doctrinal difference. Indeed, the definition of protestantism is not so much about theology (since there are thousands of denominations with contradictory doctrine) but about refusal to recognize the authority of Rome. Some protestants venerate Mary and believe in purgatory (like Luther), some baptize infants. There are a bewildering variety of understandings of the second coming, for instance, or justification. Once Luther left, the door was open to go further and further.
The Church and the Bible cannot contradict one another because truth cannot contradict truth. What came first, the Bible or the Church? The Church of course. It wrote and canonized scripture. If one sees a contradition that means one misunderstands scripture or the Church.