eucharist and attendence

[dairygirl4u2c]

:ph34r:

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

Neither. you go to Mass, but don't take communion. You then grab and talk to the priest, and tell them that you don't want to do confession, but for your spiritual well-being you must.

[StColette]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Feb 2 2005, 04:57 PM'] Neither. you go to Mass, but don't take communion. You then grab and talk to the priest, and tell them that you don't want to do confession, but for your spiritual well-being you must. [/quote]
exactly, talking with the Priest after Mass may make one feel more comfortable with going to Confession and he also may help you with whatever you're going through.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]
Neither. you go to Mass, but don't take communion. You then grab and talk to the priest, and tell them that you don't want to do confession, but for your spiritual well-being you must. [/quote]

I do have a point in this thread. This thread is to somewhat valididate the bishops point that I was making. And on a larger scale that things aren't always black and white.

You're not answersing the question. This bishop guy and others have to make these decisions all the time. Some would say, "by God, go to confession!" and wouldn't say anything else, others would try to work with the person.

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

You're asking what's worse? They're on the same plain.


To receieve communion with a mortal sin on your sould, you've just committed another mortal sin.

To not go to Mass at all, having a mortal sin on your soul, you've committed another mortal sin.


Some things have to be done. God told us to pick up our cross and follow them. This includes going to confession regularly and confessing, refraining from receiving communion when you have a mortal sin that you haven't confessed, and going to Mass period.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]You're asking what's worse? They're on the same plain.[/quote]

So would you say, "sure go to communion", it might make you stronger? Like the bishop I know. Or what would you say?

I should have asked "which advice would you give".

sorry

Edited February 2, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c

[StColette]

yeah Dairy you should have left a third option open, to give what advice we think should be given.

Again to receive Holy Communion in the state of mortal sin would not make matters better, not would it make a person stronger, because it is farther pulling them away from God, than they already are. One is not going to want to keep on committing more and more mortal sins on top of the one they already have committed.

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Feb 2 2005, 05:27 PM']
So would you say, "sure go to communion", it might make you stronger? Like the bishop I know. Or what would you say?

I should have asked "which advice would you give".

sorry [/quote]
That's not what i said. What I said is that both are on the same plain of 'worseness'. Both produce an additional mortal sin. I wouldn't advise them to do either. I'd say what I said in my first post on this thread.

[dairygirl4u2c]

and if they say "I don't want to go to confession" and "i don't want to look like a sinner not recieving", you'd still insist they go to confession?

So they've told you what they deal is: they either recieve or they don't go to church, and you'd still insist they go to confession?

[StColette]

First of all this person would be acting in a completely selfish way, think about what your wording sounds like.

"I don't want to go to confession" too bad sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do because God commands them of us, we either do His will or we don't.

" I don't want to look like a sinner by not receiving " everyone in that Church has sinned and does sin.

I'd insist they talk with the Priest, go to Church, and not receive while in the state of mortal sin. Again the person would merely only be thinking of themselves rather than thinking of God. We follow what we have been taught concerning the Faith, I mean someone wouldn't say " Hey I broke one of the commandments I guess it won't matter if I go ahead and break them all" that's not good logic.

Edited February 2, 2005 by StColette

[dairygirl4u2c]

If you were a bishop, you could point out all the logic holes, but what would you say?You've still not answered the question.

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

But we have. You just don't accept what answer we've given you.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Feb 2 2005, 06:05 PM'] You're not answersing the question. [/quote]
We can't. It's a false dichotomy...logical fallacy...impossible to answer.

[crusader1234]

I think, as others have pointed out, that going to mass and not receiving Eucharist is the best idea. Personally, I think its exponentially worse to take the Eucharist than to just skip Church.

I'm probably the only perrson I know that ever goes so far as to reject communinon at mass (being a Catholic that is) and go for the blessing. Its sort of humbling, and confusing for those around me, but ultimately I'd rather be looked at funny by the whole world than defile the body of Christ.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I suffer from a neurotic disorder which leads me to EXTREME scrupulosity...I worry about everything...all the time. It makes it very hard to be sure of anything.

I've gone to Confession and walked out of the confessional feeling guilty and having to reassure myself that the Confession was valid, that I did say all my sins, that I was penitent, etc. I know it in my mind and I can reason that I am in the state of grace, but there is always a nagging feeling, caused by my neurosis.

It is our faith to believe in a God who is divinely merciful and not looking for an excuse to condemn us.

However, when a person is in mortal sin and knows it, there is NO excuse to receive the Eucharist.

There are only so many excuses a person in this situation can come up with:

1. I don't want to scandalize others by letting them know I'm a sinner.

[i]Response: They already know you're a sinner...we all are...don't scandalize them by seeming less than penitent. Don't condemn yourself with a mortal sin to save them a little scandal, either...and don't assume that they would be scandalized. When I see someone abstaining from Communion, I say a prayer for that person...I'm hardly scandalized.[/i]

2. The grace from the Eucharist may help me.

[i]Response: Help you how? Unless you go to Confession, you will still be in the state of mortal sin...still damned to Hell. Therefore, you will still need to go to Confession...so you might as well go before Mass and allow yourself to get the grace you want, instead of condemnation. Receiving the Eucharist in this state will, however, hurt you more, as it is written that those who receive with guilt drink judgment on themselves.[/i]

Don't let there be any excuses for what is objectively mortal sin. Don't let yourself be afraid of Confession nor afraid of others. If you have the strength to approach the most powerful Being in existance and stand before Him in your sins and repent privately, as many who fear Confession attempt, then why can you not go to a priest? If it is because you know the priest is there and you know him personally, then it doesn't say much for what you think of your relationship with God or even for your belief in God, since you can approach Him, who is all-powerful, and not a priest, which seems to imply that you might not even believe God really is there, since you are less afraid of His power than the priest's, which is just as geared toward mercy.

There's no answer to your question, because neither answer addresses the issue.

[crusader1234]

Worrying about others when not taking Eucharist is silly. First of all, anybody religious enough to understand should probably be charitable. Secondly, nobody really watches you take it.

And Micah, you know what the Church reccomends for your problem?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Feb 2 2005, 08:52 PM'] And Micah, you know what the Church reccomends for your problem? [/quote]
No, I don't know about an official recommendation, although meditation on Divine Mercy and reassurance and frequent Confession are helpful in my experience. Fr. Levis on EWTN gets a lot of questions on this topic and seems generally to reassure people. It's something I hold as a cross, though, and despite all I can do to fight the urge (the reason Satan tries to use this against me is to get me to lose hope and to despair), I have a feeling it is meant to stay with me for life.

[Benedict]

I have been in this predicament quite a few times.

Sometimes I have broken down and avoided mass altogether, although that was more out of a sense of fear (feeling that lightning would strike me if I dared approach a church, bad as I am). Never, NEVER NEVER NEVER have I taken communion while in a state of mortal sin (except once*). I cannot fathom that. If I doubt whether or not I have mortally sinned, I do not receive until I go to confession. I love God more than I love myself. "I don't want to look like a sinner by not receiving communion" does not love God as much as self, let alone more than.

I do not want to go to confession. I only remember once or twice wanting to go to confession. Then my brain linked confession to having sinned. So wanting to go to confession meant I would have sinned and I did not want to sin or to have sinned. So I pretty much never want to go to confession anymore. But I do. I do because I want to be clean again. I do because I want to receive my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ's Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist again. I love God more than I love myself. "I don't want to go to confession" does not love God as much as self, let alone more than.

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first and great commandment."

[Socrates]

This is a silly poll. It asks which is the worse of two wrong answers, neither one of which is a necessity. THe right answer is to go to church, but not recieve until after going to confession.

There is no actual moral dilemna here.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 2 2005, 09:17 PM'] This is a silly poll. It asks which is the worse of two wrong answers, neither one of which is a necessity. THe right answer is to go to church, but not recieve until after going to confession. [/quote]
Exactly...a false dichotomy.