Falluja mosque marine escapes charge

[Phatmasser777]

MSNBC is as trustworthy as FOX. There Right-Wing Propagandists. I'd trust one word from MSNBC when they get new management, other than bush!

[Cam42]

Are you saying that MSNBC is right-wing? That is funny!!!!!! Sheesh....

:rotfl:

Cam42

[jasJis]

Troll777,
Wasn't this debunked when a thread was started here earlier? Yes it was.

You call people from Syria and Saudi who come into Iraq and blow themselves up at Iraqi funerals to kill Iraqi mourners 'freedom fighters'? Yes.

Are you purposely misleading, or completely biased, or blinded by hate?

Do you really believe that anyone who applies a modicom of reason or intelligence give you any creedence?

[yiannii]

I saw the recording of the incident myself and I believe that it could have been handeled a better way.

That said I do understant that no one is perfect and I also know that I cannot judge this particular soldier because I was not in his situation - I have not seen and experienced the things he has.

I do think that it was obvious that the soldier wanted to live and was willing to do anything to survive, even tell everything. Watching the video, for some reason, I felt like it was something similar to Vietnam - you know when the soldiers trashed towns etc. I read a book called "The Things They Carried" and I saw how much that war messed with people's heads - is the Iraq war doing the same thing? Instead of not being able to tell the difference between communist and non-communist; rather being scared of every Arab you see because he/she could have a bomb attached to their body.



An answer to one Phatmasser777's questions:
[quote]- Why did the US tell shiites to rise up, then not help them, with them ending up being gassed and slaughtered in the 100,000's?[/quote]

Because the Soviet Union no longer posed as a threat to the US' national interest.



[quote]You know, argent_paladin, it's unfortunate, don't you think, that those who are so quick to criticize our military do so by using a freedom won, by the very military they are criticizing. The ultimate in irony don't you think? Personally, I think we ought to take away the freedom of speech for everyone who is anti-military. It only follows from their premises. The military wins free speech for people. Those who oppose the military logically oppose the rights won by the military. On second thought, we ought to take away their freedom to worship, their ability to go to school, and their right to vote for their own leaders. In addition to the clear desire that (a racist desire if you ask me) that others around the world not enjoy the same freedoms we do here, by logical extensioin, had the U.S. not won any number of wars, our freedoms would be severely limited or non-existant.[/quote]

Only when it was in the US' best interest, lets face it, that is what international politics is all about. Every country does it, doesn't make it right but that's just a fact. I can't stand it when politicians carry on as if they are doing a selfless act when really there are other motives. Please give me some examples of wars the US has won where it didn't benefit the US. I'm not saying you are wrong but I can't think of any at the moment.


I'm sorry if you guys think I am anti-US but I am not. I don't care too much for US politics but I do care how it affects my own side of the world and lets face it, if the US sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold...LOL. That's what you get for being a soul super power.

Edited February 26, 2005 by yiannii

[Jaime]

[quote]Only when it was in the US' best interest, lets face it, that is what international politics is all about. Every country does it, doesn't make it right but that's just a fact. [/quote]

I think in general, you are making a correct statement. But in saying that, I would challenge anyone to tell me what the direct benefits were to the US to join the UN for the war in Bosnia. We have no strong interests in the country and no benefits to us resulted except to stop the slaughter of millions.

You asked for an example.

Taking an objective view of our country is a healthy thing. Its not our right to question those we put in authority, its our responsibility. However, folks like Phatmasser who quote Al jazeera like it was Gospel and ignore other reputable sources are as blind and impotent as those who never question what our government does.

[musturde]

[quote]Only when it was in the US' best interest, lets face it, that is what international politics is all about. Every country does it, doesn't make it right but that's just a fact. I can't stand it when politicians carry on as if they are doing a selfless act when really there are other motives. Please give me some examples of wars the US has won where it didn't benefit the US. I'm not saying you are wrong but I can't think of any at the moment.[/quote]

I agree with you on this. America usually does what's of its best interest. Iraq may have posed a threat to us? I doubt this whole bloodshed would actually be for oil.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Feb 25 2005, 08:51 PM'] For one, I'd have to give:

- My Face (which would go into a database, for future 'recognition' )
- My Fingerprints (")

No way in hell I want the US GOV owning that!

Anyways too do that, people require $$$. [/quote]
Ahh... You're right, it'd be an expensive trip. However, you could still stop posting these inane articles.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 26 2005, 08:54 AM'] Are you saying that MSNBC is right-wing? That is funny!!!!!! Sheesh....

:rotfl:

Cam42 [/quote]
Thats got to be one of the funniest things I've ever seen him post... I actually laughed out loud when I read it.

[JP2Iloveyou]

[quote]Only when it was in the US' best interest, lets face it, that is what international politics is all about. Every country does it, doesn't make it right but that's just a fact. I can't stand it when politicians carry on as if they are doing a selfless act when really there are other motives. Please give me some examples of wars the US has won where it didn't benefit the US. I'm not saying you are wrong but I can't think of any at the moment.[/quote]

I'm not sure what this had to do with my post, but I'll respond anyway. I think, in general, you are right. Most wars the U.S. gets into benefit it in some way. Of course, and I'm not saying this to sound arrogant, most world events have some impact on the U.S. As someone pointed out, that comes with the territory of being the only super power in the world.

Regardless of whether or not the U.S. benefits directly from Iraq is irrelevant, I think. The point is that millions of people in Iraq and Afghanistan are free now because we intervened. Both major World Wars were won because the U.S. came to Europe's aid. The U.S. is not perfect in its foreign policy. I think the Bush administration could have handled some things better in Iraq. However, I am still 100% supportive of the fact that we are over there and the troops themselves.

Also, I stand by my opinion that all people who are anti-war are therefore anti-freedom because their freedoms are won by war. You can't reap the benefits if you don't support the cause. Therefore, I think the freedom of speech these people so highly value should be taken away until they realize from whence it came.

[toledo_jesus]

If you are an enemy in a warzone, and you not only engage in guerilla tactics but also in suicide bombing and laying traps, then you can reasonably expect that taking you as a prisoner is not safe, and would not be the first course of action for your enemy. Hence why you are shot.
I wish it hadn't been in a mosque...it might have looked better that way.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='musturde' date='Feb 26 2005, 10:42 AM']
I agree with you on this. America usually does what's of its best interest. Iraq may have posed a threat to us? I doubt this whole bloodshed would actually be for oil. [/quote]
That's kinda naive when you look at what Industry the Bush family and his partners are in.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 26 2005, 07:54 AM'] Are you saying that MSNBC is right-wing? That is funny!!!!!! Sheesh....

:rotfl:

Cam42 [/quote]
You just have to look at when they bring on Anti-Bush authors or Democratic Supporters, especially Matt Lauer, he never shuts up! He interupts, misleads, strays away from the topic if it gets to truthful or dangerous. No US Media is trustworthy, there are a few I THINK are ok. But I wouldn't quote a US media source for a book.


"ONE NATION CONTROLLED BY THE MEDIA" - Greenday, American idiot

[curtins]

troll-

oh and al gezera IS a credible news source??

AND SINCE WHEN IS GREENDAY THE EXPERT ON WHICH NEWS SOURCE TO BELEIVE???? sure lets all make our decisions on a radicle left wing anti american propaganda band

[quote]Age of Global Terrorism started during the Cold War with the US and Russia. This 'terrorist' BC is OLD. For the first time, the US got it's own back, and it hit at your heart, your big, great, land of liberty blah blah nation IS WEAK. [/quote]

IS IT JUST ME OR IS ANYONE PISSED OFF THAT HE JUST TOTALY MADE FUN OF 911 AND ALL THOSE AFFECTED BY IT??!?!. phatmasser 777 if you were here right now I'd seriously have to keep myself from punching you in the face.

[Jaime]

How do you really feel?

[Cam42]

El Himester:

I think that he needs a hug!!! Or maybe a night out at Hooters. What about a burger at Ike's? Maybe a steak at Murray's? I know, a martini at the Lex.

Camster

[yiannii]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 27 2005, 02:27 AM']
I think in general, you are making a correct statement. But in saying that, I would challenge anyone to tell me what the direct benefits were to the US to join the UN for the war in Bosnia. We have no strong interests in the country and no benefits to us resulted except to stop the slaughter of millions.

You asked for an example.

Taking an objective view of our country is a healthy thing. Its not our right to question those we put in authority, its our responsibility. However, folks like Phatmasser who quote Al jazeera like it was Gospel and ignore other reputable sources are as blind and impotent as those who never question what our government does. [/quote]
Thanks for that example. I did some very quick research on the American involvement in the war and found no real direct benefit for the US and their intervention in Bosnia.

[yiannii]

[quote name='musturde' date='Feb 27 2005, 02:42 AM']
I agree with you on this. America usually does what's of its best interest. Iraq may have posed a threat to us? I doubt this whole bloodshed would actually be for oil. [/quote]
LOL, don't worry I'm not getting on the anti-US, far fanatical left band wagon. I never for one second truly believed that oil was a soul motivation for the US intervention in Iraq.

This said G. Bush's father had a history with Saddam and I remember when Bush got elected my mother saying that Saddam and the Bush family had un-finished business to sort out...LOL.

I don’t like how the Coalition of the Willing changed their reason for the involvement. First it was to find WMD and then the focus was to liberate Iraq. I do believe that Saddam had to go - but at the same time I do believe that the Bush Government did see a positive outcome, benefiting the US’ national interest.

The fact is that Islamic terrorism poses a threat to all democratic and non-Islamic countries in the world (even "moderate" Muslims are targets of radical Islamics). There is a lot of tension in the Middle East especially between the Shiite and Sunni Muslims in Iraq. And yes these small countries do pose a threat to the US.

History shows that democratic countries do not go to war against each other and perhaps this is why the US is encouraging democracy in Iraq. I do know that major world leaders see a democratic world as being a more peaceful world.

So here we have it - the US' possible motives for the war in Iraq - WORLD PEACE! Yes this benefits other nations other than the US and this is great. It also benefits the Iraqi people. But please don't carry on as if the US is inly involved to for the freedom of the Iraqis.

[yiannii]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Feb 27 2005, 02:56 PM'] That's kinda naive when you look at what Industry the Bush family and his partners are in. [/quote]
Looks like someone has been reading the "gospel" according to michael more a little too much.....

[yiannii]

[quote]Regardless of whether or not the U.S. benefits directly from Iraq is irrelevant, I think. The point is that millions of people in Iraq and Afghanistan are free now because we intervened. Both major World Wars were won because the U.S. came to Europe's aid. The U.S. is not perfect in its foreign policy. I think the Bush administration could have handled some things better in Iraq. However, I am still 100% supportive of the fact that we are over there and the troops themselves.[/quote]

WWII started in 1939, the Americans became involved December 1942 after the attack on Pearl Harbour. Europe and its allies had been fighting for World Peace for three years before America dipped her toe in the water and then only because the Japanese did the most stupid thing they have ever done.

I wonder if the US would have become involved anyway had not the Japanese mis-calculated by bombing Pearl Harbour or would they have sat back and waited to negotiated and economic treaties with Japan and Germany.

Edited February 27, 2005 by yiannii

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='yiannii' date='Feb 27 2005, 12:45 AM'] Looks like someone has been reading the "gospel" according to michael more a little too much..... [/quote]
Or deflecting rubber bullets and inhaling tear gas at the WTO's Battle in Seattle.