Medugorje...

[popestpiusx]

Ok, I'll post one more. Here is one of the most comprehensive books written on the subject, with permission of, and documentational support of, the various levels hierarchy involved The book is entitled "Medjugorje after Twenty-One Years - The Definitive History" There is also more information on the site:
[url="http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/"]http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/[/url]

Statement given in May of this past year by Bishop Peric:
[url="http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/page_truthfrees.htm"]http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/page_truthfrees.htm[/url]

Latest statement of the bishop:
[url="http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/page_lateststatement.htm"]http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/page_lateststatement.htm[/url]

[Markh]

I recently wrote a paper on this topic and insterestingly the whole "The Church doesn't approve until they've stopped" line isn't actually true.

The Betania Apparitions were given approval while the apparitions were till taking place.

[url="http://biblia.com/apparitions/betania.htm"]http://biblia.com/apparitions/betania.htm[/url]

I would personally steer clear of Medugorje, there are tonnes of apparition sites which have been declared "worthy of belief".

The latest talk from the local bishop, I believe, is asking people not to go to Medugorje, we should not disobey the Church. If Medugorje is indeed, causing disobediance within the laity- how can it be a good thing?....As you said ... "By their fruits "

Edited March 10, 2005 by Markh

[Nicole8223]

All I can say is I was there. I climbed the mountain. It's a holy place.

[shelly_freak]

Now children, lets play nice!


So you gonna post those pics Nicole? I'd really like to see them!

[Nicole8223]

Heck yeah! I forgot...I'll do it tonight!

[Jaime]

Nicole

I'm with you hon! I was there eight years ago. I saw the whole sun spinning in the sky thing. I have yet to hear anyone explain why my retinas aren't burned out. Nor has anyone been able to explain why half the people standing next to me couldn't see it.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

I climbed the moutain. It was a good penitential thing. But it didn't make me anymore convinced about the apparitions.

I'll wait for church approval, and until then be appreciative of the good that does come from the place, but otherwise remain skeptical.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Here's a few of my pictures (just from Medjugorje... I also was in Mostar, Dubrovnik, and a few other places):

[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/p8970a7d3f19d8c56230d58f706eb823f/f6873ab7.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/pa349de3c9b7b1beece9b171ac66979e0/f68747bd.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/pf0e21b299dbbbb2353e4e53f48d2a9e2/f6872fb1.jpg[/img]

[LSW]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 9 2005, 03:40 PM'] Here is another collection, a wealth of documentation:
[url="http://unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/MedjugorjeIndex.html"]http://unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/MedjugorjeIndex.html[/url] [/quote]
WOW! Great website. Anybody out there who believes in Medjugorje go to that website and click on 'The Great Apostasy'. Its a must read.

[Robbi]

Ive been when I was seven years old.
My Mum was born in Croatia, not far from there.

Though I dont remember much, ive been told from my mum and relatives that alot of miracles happen there all the time.
Supposedely a relative with 2 young sons (around 5 yrs old) said they saw angels flying around the ceiling of the church, but no one else could see them.

[Socrates]

I personally don't believe the apparitions are real. (See PSPX's links).
The whole thing smells phishy to me. It is not really anything like the approved apparitions.
If God can bring good out of it (increased preayerfulness, etc.), good.
But the message is highly suspect, to say the least.

Until the Church approves this, or other alleged appartions, I think its best not to bother with them.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='LSW' date='Mar 10 2005, 10:13 PM'] WOW! Great website. Anybody out there who believes in Medjugorje go to that website and click on 'The Great Apostasy'. Its a must read. [/quote]
There is much to read on that site. I hope people take the time to look into it with an open mind.

[Krush2k2]

If its not of God, then whose responsible for all the gold rosaries, visions, and dancing sun that comes from it?

[Markh]

2 explanations:either that God performed them as miracles don't have to be associated with the apparitions (or lack of apparitions)

or that satan performed them, satan can do a lot of powerful stuff, we often don't even consider him in all this.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

and, sometimes people can let their emotions run away with them...

a lot of "visions" people tend to have oftentimes seem psychologically induced.

[Nicole8223]

I agree with the above statement. There were people who were claiming they saw light and spinning suns and al kinds of stuff. Our group leader, a native of the land and a very holy woman, told us that most of it is bologna. She told us not to even think about those things but to focus on the presence of Christ in the Eucharist and the love of our Mother. That's what I tried to do. I actually prayed, before I went, that I wouldn't [i]feel[/i] anything cause it is so easy to get caught up in that. What I did experience was real..

Something I learned, and I think we will all agree, is how truly universal the church is. It was amazing. I was there for the feast of the Assumption, and so there were pilgrims from all around the world . hundreds of thousands of people, and the reverence blew my mind.

It taught me that Christ is present here in Philly just as much as in Bosnia. That was a lesson I needed to learn. But as for the signs and emotions, that's irrelevant. People say things, and people get caught up.

I guess what I am trying to say, was that my experience was to learn more of the reality of the truths of the Church. Nothing more...nothing extra...just a reiteration of the facts. Mass, the Eucharist, the rosary, community...it all became clear to me in a new way.



Side Note: shelly...i am still going to post the pictures...i promise!

[Jaime]

Again Nicole I'm in 100% agreement with you. The miracles are indeed a sidenote to the prayer and faith that is going on in medjugorje.

That being said, the sun spinning thing ain't bunk. I am a first hand witness to it. Not only that, but there has been occassions since my time in Bosnia where I saw it again. There was another miracle while I was there as well. But it was a personal one that I'm not open to sharing.

As far as the messages being "highly suspect" I've read the messages for years now. None have contradicted the Church. All have been calling for conversion, prayer, and fasting. What is so suspect about that?

[Nicole8223]

AMEN!

I wasn't trying to discount what you said about the sun...but just that many people claim that they see it when they don't in reality...at least it doesn't seem so. who am i to say?

Praise God that he showed his glory for you that day! Many interior healings occurred for me as well.

Thanks, hot stuff!

[Jaime]

I'll give an account of a "miracle" that doesn't actually happen there.

We were staying across town from Cross Mountain. One of the stories that the older women in the village would say is that the Blessed Mother prayed at the foot of the cross on top of the mountain every morning at dawn. I thought I might go and keep her company one morning.

As I left our hotel (it was about 3:30 AM) It was pitch black out and the cross was glowing red. People had talked about the "miracle" of the cross glowing red or blue with no explanation of it. There was no electricity or fires allowed up there. So needless to say I was a bit excited about what I might see. I could see it glowing red and I was going to be up there next to it before sunrise. I climbed to the top of the mountain, (really beautiful when dawn breaks up there) then made my way up the steps to the foot of the cross to pray my rosary.

There I found a dozen 18" red glass votive candles that had been burning all night. Hence it was glowing red.

Yes people can be desparate for miracles. To find some some means to justify their faith. Ironically that's antithetical to the very definition of faith.

Another example is the rosaries turning gold. A huge majority of rosaries made are silver plated. Below the silver is brass. Anybody who's gone to Medjugorje knows you have the rosary out constantly. One set of mysteries a day? Please!! Go back to the minors!! Thousands of folks are doing full rosaries (plus) daily. All that praying rubs the silver plating away and leaves the brass. I have tons of them

However, I have seen a pure silver rosary that did indeed turn gold. It was not faked. The deacon at the church I worked showed it to me. The most astonishing part was that the silver rings connecting the Marian medallion were half gold and half silver.

That was pretty cool.


Why am I rambling? Well two reasons.

1. Medjugorje is like most things in life. There may be some bad to sift through but it doesn't mean there isn't good there.

2. Its Friday afternoon and I don't much feel like working

[Nicole8223]

LOL...I hear ya on the Friday thing.

Good examples though.

There was something I experienced similarly while there. There is abeautiful statue of Christ resurrecting off of the cross. On the one side, it seems as if the wooden statue is leaking oil. People stand lined up to wipe some of the oil onto a napkin. It was really strange. I had a bad feeling about it, and so I asked someone. It was a villager who knew about the history of the town. She told me that the staute had been transported from Italy, and it was damaged along the way in the leg. BEcause of that, the inside of the leg was hollow, and so rain water would get caught in there, and mix with the oils of the wood and coating of the wood, and it would leak out through this small hole in the side. People thought it was miraculous, when really it was just some rain water and wood protector. Kinda crazy!

Anyway, stick to truth and the Church and you can't go wrong, right? Our Lady is surely there!