Do you accept

[dairygirl4u2c]

sorry for the misleading title

[Anna]

Only if the Man Who founded the Catholic Church could be wrong.
In other words, no, nunca, nyet, nein...
(What's in your wallet?!!)

[Cam42]

This is an ubsurd topic. You are on a Catholic board.

:shootme:

Cam

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Anna' date='Mar 9 2005, 03:58 PM'] Only if the Man Who founded the Catholic Church could be wrong.
In other words, no, nunca, nyet, nein...
(What's in your wallet?!!) [/quote]
lol, nice one Anna!!! (good to see you)

[MichaelFilo]

If the Church is wrong, Christ is wrong. If Christ is wrong, then nothing is right. Without God, there is nothing, and there will be nothing. So, I cannot accept that the Church is wrong.

God bless,
Mikey

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]If the Church is wrong, Christ is wrong.[/quote]

Why does the church being wrong mean that Christ is wrong? I believe in Christ, yet I acknowledge that he could be wrong.. that is, he could be my false hope.

I still have faith. I don't understand how none of you can think that way, it seems unhealthy.

Do you all think that I don't have faith?

[MichaelFilo]

Faith doesn't dictate that Christ is probably right. It dictates that Christ IS right. It doesn't dictate that Christ is most likely not wrong, it dictates that he ISN'T wrong. So yes to have Faith in Christ is to not allow any other options to exist. How you achieve that point in your life can be different; through another's example, through theology, through being open to God in your prayer and He pointing you to the Truth, whatever it maybe. However, to say that Jesus could be wrong is unhealthy, sinc eit's a half-foot in, half-foot out situation.

God bless,
Mikey

Edit : The Church is Christ's Body, if it is wrong, then Christ is wrong, since the Body and the Head cannot disagree, as they are not just One in Christ, but are Christ.

Edited March 10, 2005 by MichaelFilo

[argent_paladin]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Mar 9 2005, 07:39 PM']
I believe in Christ, yet I acknowledge that he could be wrong.. that is, he could be my false hope.

Do you all think that I don't have faith? [/quote]
You have a very different understanding of faith. Or maybe your faith is "kinda" faith. If you acknowledge that you could be wrong and that He in whom you place your faith could be false... well, that's not faith at all. That is more like a hunch or a leaning, or perhaps a strong guess. It is certainly not faith.
It is certainly not the faith that can move mountains.

[MichaelFilo]

Argent Paladin put into words what most of us wanted to say. Thank you AP.

God bless,
Mikey

[track2004]

I'm not sure on this one. As much as I'd like to say, 'No The Church is never never never wrong.' I can't quite.

I also find it interesting that most people who have responded refuse to question whether The Church can be wrong, but expect people of other religions to question it. Each person who is not Catholic is free to question the validity of their religion and it's relationship with Christ, but we are not because we are right? That is how we convert people; we ask them to examine their church and hope they determine that it is wrong.

"Test [i]everything[/i]; retain what is good." 2 Thessalonians 5:21

Be willing to question your own church because it is the only way you'll be able to difinately say is is or is not ok.

[Paphnutius]

I would say that the Church is not wrong. One because that Church is the faithful and not the hierarchy in Rome. Please keep that in mind. It was the faithful, not the bishops, who saved the Church from that Arian Heresy. Two, because the Church only commits error when it is not the Church. To explain: the Church we believe is guided by the Holy Spirit (Pentecost), and was founded on the crucifixion (flowing of water and blood). If the Church is not following the guidance of the Holy Spirit (the selling of indulgences) then it is not functioning as the Body of Chirst, which is what the Church is. I would also have to agree with allowing the fact that Christ could be "false hope." Remember the answer to the heresies and the Council of Nicea ( i think)? If Christ did not die on the cross, our hope is in vain. One must believe he was correct in all things to believe he was correct in any.

[MC Just]

Christ wasnt/isnt,never will be wrong and the same goes for his church.

[track2004]

My point is more closely that I believe in Christ and what He says, but I will admit that sometimes people can mess it up. I'm not saying the Church is always in error, but that we as faithful need to be able to question things so that we stay true to form.

[epiclesis]

The poll question is a non-starter.

Wrong about what?

Catholic Church? Royal Crown Cola? It could be the wrong choice, I guess... depends on what kind of sandwich you're having with it.

[p0lar_bear]

Well, that depends....


I am willing to entertain the possibility that the Catholic Church is wrong in making the Swiss Guards wear those multicolored outfits with the puffy pants. (My apologies to any Swiss Guards who may visit the phorum).

I am also willing to say the Church may have been a bit premature in naming Henry VIII "Defender of the Faith."


As for actual tenets of the faith...no.

[Apotheoun]

This question is nonsensical, and moreover it is based upon the impoverished Protestant understanding of the nature of the Church. It is a dogma of divine and catholic faith that Christ is the Catholic Church, for as scripture itself testifies, the Church is Christ's body, and the Head and the Body are one Man. Therefore, if a man ascribes error to the Catholic Church in matters touching on faith and morals, it follows that he ascribes error to Christ Himself, and that is impossible.

[drforjc]

[quote]One because that Church is the faithful and not the hierarchy in Rome[/quote]

Ummm, last I knew the Church included both the faithful and the hierarchy.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='drforjc' date='Mar 10 2005, 10:53 AM']
Ummm, last I knew the Church included both the faithful and the hierarchy. [/quote]
True, let me clarify myself. I meant that the Church is not soley the hierarchy in Rome. The Church is lead by it, but it is not the Church. When one wishes to point to the Church they should not defer to the Roman Cura, but rather all the 1.1 billion faithful. I am sorry for any misunderstanding. In no way did i mean to exclude the hierarchy, they are just not exhaustive of the Church. Is that clearer? Once again sorry for any confusion.

[drforjc]

Thanks for the clarification, but I'd like to add in your example about the Arian heresy that the Roman See never embraced or taught Arianism.

The other thing to remember is that people have tried to use this type of argument to, for example, assert that since a majority of the faithful support using ABC, that this is some kind of "sensus fidei" that could somehow overrule the Magisteral teaching on the subject. This is totally fallacious because, unlike the Arian example, it involves [b]reversing[/b] previously defined doctrine. In the Arian controversy, the sensus fidei was legitimate in that it [b]repeated[/b] the orthodox doctrine.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='drforjc' date='Mar 10 2005, 04:06 PM'] Thanks for the clarification, but I'd like to add in your example about the Arian heresy that the Roman See never embraced or taught Arianism.

The other thing to remember is that people have tried to use this type of argument to, for example, assert that since a majority of the faithful support using ABC, that this is some kind of "sensus fidei" that could somehow overrule the Magisteral teaching on the subject. This is totally fallacious because, unlike the Arian example, it involves [b]reversing[/b] previously defined doctrine. In the Arian controversy, the sensus fidei was legitimate in that it [b]repeated[/b] the orthodox doctrine. [/quote]
Exactly. One just has to realize that the Church is the faithful lead by the Magesterium, and that the Magesterium is accountable to and responsible for the Faithful. I would like to point out though, that there were many bishops that did embrace the Arian heresy, not the Roman See, but many in the clergy did.