Why did god create man?

[Melchisedec]

Why did god create man? Whats the purpose of mans existence?

[Apotheoun]

Man was created so that he might glorify God, and in the process participate in the very life and glory of the Creator.

[Myles Domini]

[quote]To seek Him, to know Him and to love Him[/quote]

Man was made because God's love is prodigal past the point of excess. Out of His Love He let us exist that we might have the chance to exist and to live in life and death and eternity always in union with Him through His live giving grace. We could've been mere possibilities in the divine logos but God, beautiful as He is, made us so that we could 'taste and see that the Lord is good'. So that we...finite beings, might be able to experinece the joy of knowing we have infinity given to us in spite of ourselves. God made man to experience the happiness of having all the joy that one can possibly possess: Him.

[quote]GREAT art Thou, O Lord, and greatly to be praised; great is Thy power, and of Thy wisdom there is no end. And man, being a part of Thy creation, desires to praise Thee, man, who bears about with him his mortality, the witness of his sin, even the witness that Thou "resistest the proud, " -- yet man, this part of Thy creation, desires to praise Thee. Thou movest us to delight in praising Thee; for Thou hast formed us for Thyself, and our hearts are restless till they find rest in Thee.[/quote]

Confessions, Book 1, Paragraph 1, St Augustine of Hippo--Doctor of Grace

For better answers consult the mystics such as St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Myles' date='Mar 10 2005, 10:20 AM']
Man was made because God's love is prodigal past the point of excess. Out of His Love He let us exist that we might have the chance to exist and to live in life and death and eternity always in union with Him through His live giving grace. We could've been mere possibilities in the divine logos but God, beautiful as He is, made us so that we could 'taste and see that the Lord is good'. So that we...finite beings, might be able to experinece the joy of knowing we have infinity given to us in spite of ourselves. God made man to experience the happiness of having all the joy that one can possibly possess: Him.



Confessions, Book 1, Paragraph 1, St Augustine of Hippo--Doctor of Grace

For better answers consult the mystics such as St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross [/quote]
Yeah, I think that pretty much covers it. Kudos.

[Melchisedec]

So we exist for gods own pleasure? And through pleasing him, we please ourselves?

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 10 2005, 11:39 AM'] So we exist for gods own pleasure? And through pleasing him, we please ourselves? [/quote]
I dont think that was ever mentioned in there. God is all good and well u know all of the omni's, so God's happiness is not dependent on us.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 10 2005, 11:39 AM'] So we exist for gods own pleasure? And through pleasing him, we please ourselves? [/quote]
I'd say that's fairly accurate. For want, not need. We are also free to find pleasure outside of God. Since God is all Good, that pleasure is only temporary.

[Myles Domini]

[quote]So we exist for gods own pleasure? And through pleasing him, we please ourselves? 


I dont think that was ever mentioned in there. God is all good and well u know all of the omni's, so God's happiness is not dependent on us. [/quote]

I agree P. Thats what makes God's love and human love not only a shadow but something that can only be delivered into our hearts by a supernatural grace. There is no neccesity based upon God's love. God does not recieve anything from the beings He creates. There was 'never' a 'never' that God was not complete in. God is immutable and is simultaneously unchanging at all times. God does not take pleasure in human worship, there is nothing of any worth that humans can offer God hence Jesus entered the Heavenly Sanctuary to make a perfect offering. The only thing God can offer Himself is Himself and indeed there has never not been a time when the indivisible trinity was not living a bond of love.

I stress again. Man's existence is not for goods pleasure but is the epitome of the Divine Mercy, which Jesus wanted St Faustina to remind the world about. God doesnt create because there is anything 'in it' for Him. He creates simply for the sake of giving His creations a chance to enjoy life and in terms of higher creatures like humans, a chance to enjoy direct mystical union with Him.

[Melchisedec]

I am really tring to understand what you mean. So forgive me if your eloquent words are not making much sense to me.

[quote]I stress again. Man's existence is not for goods pleasure but is the epitome of the Divine Mercy, which Jesus wanted St Faustina to remind the world about.[/quote]

So we are here as the emodiment of his mercy? Essentially he created us to symbolize his everlasting mercy?

[quote] God doesnt create because there is anything 'in it' for Him. He creates simply for the sake of giving His creations a chance to enjoy life and in terms of higher creatures like humans, a chance to enjoy direct mystical union with Him.[/quote]

I still dont understand this. So he created us not for him, but for the sake of having a creation enjoy life? So god didnt make his creations for him, but for the creation itself. The problem I see is that if there is nothing in it for god. Than disobeying god means nothing. Because he had nothing to gain or lose from it. Since he had nothing that benefitted him from the action of creating humans. If god is upset if you do not follow his plan, than how can he be happy when humans do follow the plan, if there is nothing in it for him or pleasure derived?

Edited March 10, 2005 by Melchisedec

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Mar 10 2005, 10:03 AM'] Man was created so that he might glorify God, and in the process participate in the very life and glory of the Creator. [/quote]
Isnt glorification a human construct that benefits the ego? Why would god need us to glorify him when he is the all mighty? What does glorifying god accomplish for god?

[Gal. 5:22,23]

God created us because it was good. Gen. 1:31 says, "God saw all that He had made, and it was very good." We are created with purpose. That purpose is to glorify Him.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Gal. 5:22,23' date='Mar 10 2005, 01:53 PM'] God created us because it was good. Gen. 1:31 says, "God saw all that He had made, and it was very good." We are created with purpose. That purpose is to glorify Him. [/quote]
Than can anyone answer the question on why does a god need to be glorified? What does glorifying god do for god?

[Gal. 5:22,23]

In my opinion, God does not need to be glorified. He has/had perfect fellowship amongst the Trinity. However, He desires to be glorified, worshiped, honored and praised.

Since God is all good, He only does "good" things. Creation is a good thing. He is also a God of order. Therefore, creation has its purpose - glorifying Him. Sometimes it helps to think of this in human terms. I am the mother of three children. I put in long days cooking, cleaning, caring for and loving those children. I desire for my children to love me, respect me, and express gratitude for the things I do for them. They, however, have been created with free will. They may do those things, they may not. But that doesn't change the fact that I love them and want only the best for them.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Gal. 5:22,23' date='Mar 10 2005, 02:30 PM'] In my opinion, God does not need to be glorified. He has/had perfect fellowship amongst the Trinity. However, He desires to be glorified, worshiped, honored and praised.

Since God is all good, He only does "good" things. Creation is a good thing. He is also a God of order. Therefore, creation has its purpose - glorifying Him. Sometimes it helps to think of this in human terms. I am the mother of three children. I put in long days cooking, cleaning, caring for and loving those children. I desire for my children to love me, respect me, and express gratitude for the things I do for them. They, however, have been created with free will. They may do those things, they may not. But that doesn't change the fact that I love them and want only the best for them. [/quote]
But did you create your children for the sole purpose of praising you?

[Gal. 5:22,23]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 10 2005, 02:42 PM'] But did you create your children for the sole purpose of praising you? [/quote]
I didn't create my children. My husband and I had children because, as happy as we were just the two of us, we desired to add to our family. And, God commanded it - "Be fruitful and multiply."

Edited March 10, 2005 by Gal. 5:22,23

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 10 2005, 01:58 PM'] Than can anyone answer the question on why does a god need to be glorified? What does glorifying god do for god? [/quote]
God does not [i]need[/i] to be glorified. As Myles said, He is completly self-glorified and [b]complete[/b] in his trinity. God created in wisdom and love, not out of necessity. We are here because God wants it. We need to look at how God works to gain some clarity. God is Trinity, it is in His nature to create, share, and love. He created humans out of love, and yes to give Him glory. It is not a matter of God's needing glory, for that is found in Himself (i.e.: the Trinity), but a matter of God loving creation so much. You understanding of glory is to shower one with praises. That is not the understanding of Glory that we have. We understand Glory as following God's will. We were created with a free will, that does not mean that we were created to do whatever we want. Choosing sin or evil is [b]never[/b] a freeing act or choice. Sin is always limiting. So we are free to choose God. It is not a demand, but a freedom to love Him in return. That is the glory that we were created to give. Not a shower of "I love you's" (those are nice and proper dont get me wrong), but to follow the Divine Will with the love and self-giving as he showed us.

[Myles Domini]

[quote]I still dont understand this. So he created us not for him, but for the sake of having a creation enjoy life? So god didnt make his creations for him, but for the creation itself. The problem I see is that if there is nothing in it for god. Than disobeying god means nothing. Because he had nothing to gain or lose from it. Since he had nothing that benefitted him from the action of creating humans. If god is upset if you do not follow his plan, than how can he be happy when humans do follow the plan, if there is nothing in it for him or pleasure derived? [/quote]

Thats the whole point my friend. As Paphnutius explained God does not create the world for neccessity. God's creation stands out as unique. Whereas a man and a woman are more or less biologically or at least psychologically drawn to one another as God designed it, God was not bound to make anything. He made the Universe so that the beings in it could enjoy Him. There is nothing in it for Him. That is what the Cross is all about. That is what makes Christianity, at least in its apostolic and Catholic form, so radically different from other monotheist systems. In Jesus Christ we see God revealed as He really is: A lover, who loves so much that He empties himself taking on the form of a servant and learns obidience unto death, death on a cross.

Take two moments to actually think about this my friend. God is so far above human beings by His nature that to describe the ontological difference (difference in being) as being one that is 'far' is incorrect. There really is no adverb for God's being. However, God decided to show His love to mankind by taking on a human nature so that He could die for us. This was completely unneccessary. It would not have been logically impossible for God to forgive man by some other means. However, He didnt. He took on the littleness of our nature and died for us. There was nothing in that for God. He reduced Himself by becoming human there is nothing great about human that could possibly add anything to God. The process of becoming human is a huge condescension on His part. More still is the process of taking on the form of bread and wine every Mass. All of these things dont add anything to God they place him in the form of something far less than He is. Again, there is nothing in it for God.

Its for us.

Unlike in the Jewish or Muslim understandings of God. The Christian God, in the apostolic and Catholic tradition, is the God who has come down to us to love us and continues to do so. He did not create man for His glorification but made man to glorify Him because He knew we would love it. Simply knowing God makes me want to priase Him because what He has done for me in allowing me to exist is beyond belief. There is no reason why God should've made the cosmos, even less for why He should sustain it. Yet both are His handiwork and more He gives me the chance to unite myself to Him. He gives an unneccessary, changeable, finite being the chance to be bonded to His infinite essence by grace. Knowing what I am, I am struck to know what God has done for me, because there is nothing compelling Him to do it. He acts out of benevolence and love towards me. Fulfilling me, drawing me into Himself. Listen to what St Basil the Great has to say:

[quote]"From the Spirit comes foreknowledge of the future, understanding of the mysteries of faith, insight into the hidden meaning of Scripture, and other special gifts. Through the Spirit we become citizens of heaven, we are admitted to the company of the angels, we enter into eternal happiness, and abide in God. Through the Spirit we acquire a likeness to God; indeed, we attain what is beyond our most sublime aspirations-we become God."[/quote]

We become God...not in substance but by being as one with Him in the Divine life being breathed into our souls by sacramental grace. As St Peter puts it, we become partakers in the divine nature. This is all for our benefit not for God's and like I said it hits me like a right hook because I know that I could not exist and God need not have made me. Yet, He has and in doing so He has given me the chance to discover Him and to be loved by Him. To have all my desires and all that I could possibly want satisfied in Him, as He is everything and being infinite is all I could possibly want. Thats the beauty of God as the highest good, He never 'runs out' there is never a limit to His love or how much of Him you can love. You turn your eyes to Him and from then on its all beautiful.

God's love is free, unbound, uncoerced. Free. Once you understand this, you will understand the gem of Christianity and start to appreciate exactly what the Church is and means. The Church is yet just another way that God who needs nothing has reached out to beings who are essential nothing (can be killed in a thousand ways and have a 70-120 year lifespan) to give them everything: Sacramental grace is yet another means that God gives us Himself and the best thing is we dont have to do anything except let ourselves be loved. It does not involve any complicated meditation techniques or auto suggestion, just a realisation and a willingess to come to the table of the Lord. He gives grace freely all we have to do is unharden our hearts and we would see it all.

His love is completely free. We dont earn it. We simply abide in it. Grace was won for us by the God-Man and is given to us by Him freely. Because of that we live under grace not under law because our fulfilment of the law becomes an act in response to God's love (hence my signature) thus the closer we draw to God the easier it becomes to be good and the more we hate sin for fear we might be torn from the joy of God's loving warmth.

Like I said if you can buy some of the books of the 16th century Spanish mystics because they are very good at explaining these things.

God Bless you
Myles

[Paphnutius]

Far more eloquently put that I ever could have Myles. Once again Kudos. Your love for God and for faith is quite distinguishable!

[PaxVobis]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Mar 10 2005, 12:42 PM'] I'd say that's fairly accurate.  For want, not need.  We are also free to find pleasure outside of God.  Since God is all Good, that pleasure is only temporary. [/quote]
God did not create for want or need. God is perfection. Want implies imperfection as well as need. It was done out of pure love.


Also, you said htat we are free to find pleasure outside of God. The only good for humans is that which comes from God. If our actions are not actions which turn us towards God, then they are not good, but mistaken as good... I.E Sin.

Peace,
Tony

I'm sure that this was already said.. but I didn't want to read all the posts.

Edited March 11, 2005 by PaxVobis

[Antonius]

Amen, Myles. You have been blessed.