Women and the Church

[Ianny01]

What was the role of women in the early Church, right after Pentecost? I hear that abbesses (who are equivalent to a bishop for an abbey) have at times ordained men to be priests when the need was forthecoming. Is this true?

[Guest Eremite]

An abbess is not equivalent to a Bishop. A Bishop has received Sacramental ordination, and is a successor to the Apostles. An abbess is still under his authority, if her order is within his diocese. Furthemore, a lay male could not ordain someone, let alone a lay female. You cannot give what you do not have. Non-ordained persons do not have the grace of ordination, and thus, cannot impart it.

Women played an important role in the early Church, as they tended to the needs of the Apostles and others who joined them in their ministry. They were frequently called "Deaconesses", but this was not the ordained office of Deacon. The word Deacon simply means "helper", and so it was used in reference to women without confusion regarding their distinction from the male ordained deacons, who had a Liturgical role, among other duties of service.

[phatcatholic]

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01007e.htm"][b]this article[/b][/url] is very informative. what we find is that the abbess has enjoyed a wide range of powers throughout the history of the church, and many she didn't deserve..........but never the power to ordain.

[Ianny01]

Thank you for the information.

These are questions that have risen up for me lately due to several discussions between my campus minister, some non-Catholic friends, and me. In particular, my campus minister was the one who made that claim about written accounts of abbesses (or the early Church equivalent) ordaining men. Being confused at that, limited in my knowledge, and knowing that he studied patristics, I asked here. He's an intelligent person and a fun man to be around, but this just struck me as.... odd, I guess.

Thank you again.

Sincerely,
Ianny01

[phatcatholic]

tell your campus minister he is more than welcome to join phatmass

[Paphnutius]

There was also an order of widows. This is mentioned I think in a few of the epistles.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 13 2005, 03:21 PM'] There was also an order of widows. This is mentioned I think in a few of the epistles. [/quote]
some possible references:

[b]Luke 7:36-37[/b]
[b]36 [/b]And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phan'u-el, of the tribe of Asher; she was of a great age, having lived with her husband seven years from her virginity,
[b]37 [/b]and as a widow till she was eighty-four. She did not depart from the temple,
worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day.

[b]1 Tim 5:3-16[/b]
[b]3 [/b]Honor widows who are real widows.
[b]4 [/b]If a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn their religious duty to their own family and make some return to their parents; for this is acceptable in the sight of God.
[b]5 [/b]She who is a real widow, and is left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day;
[b]6 [/b]whereas she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives.
[b]7 [/b]Command this, so that they may be without reproach.
[b]8 [/b]If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
[b]9 [/b]Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband;
[b]10 [/b]and she must be well attested for her good deeds, as one who has brought up children, shown hospitality, washed the feet of the saints, relieved the afflicted, and devoted herself to doing good in every way.
[b]11 [/b]But refuse to enrol younger widows; for when they grow wanton against Christ they desire to marry,
[b]12 [/b]and so they incur condemnation for having violated their first pledge.
[b]13 [/b]Besides that, they learn to be idlers, gadding about from house to house, and not only idlers but gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not.
[b]14 [/b]So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, rule their households, and give the enemy no occasion to revile us.
[b]15 [/b]For some have already strayed after Satan.
[b]16 [/b]If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her assist them; let the church not be burdened, so that it may assist those who are real widows.

[b]1 Cor 7:7-8[/b]
[b]7 [/b]I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.
[b]8 [/b]To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.

[Paphnutius]

Thanks for the refs, I am often to lazy to look them up myself. That is why i can never be an apologist. lol

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 15 2005, 09:01 PM'] Thanks for the refs, I am often to lazy to look them up myself. That is why i can never be an apologist. lol [/quote]
ahhh, i don't believe that for a second