Prayer to angels

[Paladin D]

I believe praying to angels is an awesome thing. However, some believe that prayer to angels is a little useless and even a vain act. For example, if millions of people pray to St. Michael the Archangel everyday, how does he respond to all of them? One person I talked to thought it was selfish for someone to ask St. Michael to protect them every night. Why? Because that would tie up his time to protect that person, while millions of others need him.

I have two answers:

[b]1)[/b] Since "time" works differently than what we know in the spiritual dimension, angels can then attend to their duties with unbelievable ease.

[b]2)[/b] When someone prays to St. Michael to protect them, he may protect them for a short period of time, but then assign another angel to his post as he attends to another matter that requires his assistance. After so, he will return back to his post.


Hope my answers don't sound too inmature.

[Paphnutius]

CCC-336

[quote]From its beginning until death, human life is surrounded by their watchful care [angels] and intercession. 'Beside each believer stands an angel as protector and shepherd leading him to life." Already here on earth the Christian life shares by faith in the blessed company of angels and men united in God[/quote]

I know this does not answe your particular question about Michael. We can always fall back on the "it is a mystery of faith," but as you said they are spiritual and we do not know how the spiritual realm interacts exactly with the physical.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 13 2005, 03:30 PM'] We can always fall back on the "it is a mystery of faith," but as you said they are spiritual and we do not know how the spiritual realm interacts exactly with the physical. [/quote]
Exactly.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 13 2005, 02:30 PM'] CCC-336



I know this does not answe your particular question about Michael. We can always fall back on the "it is a mystery of faith," but as you said they are spiritual and we do not know how the spiritual realm interacts exactly with the physical. [/quote]
Or if at all, or if it exists or not.

The problem with prayer to any god, or being (angel) is that they are not answered. If you pray a thousand times and only one time some coincidence happens that it comes through. Than the believer only remembers the time it was answered and not the other 999 times it wasnt answered. Its like this. If you have a sick uncle and you want him to get well. You pray and ask god to heal him. He dies. Well they say, it was gods will. But than why pray anyways if gods will supercedes it? That would mean that when prayers are answered, they only work conicidentally because it was gods will to begin wtih.

[Gal. 5:22,23]

Prayer is always answered, just not always how we want it to be. Even the medical community recognizes the benefits of prayer. There have been studies done that patients who have been prayed for actually do better than those who have not. I'm going to surf for some articles.

In the meantime, I just love this:

[url="http://www.interviewwithgod.com/theoriginal.htm"]http://www.interviewwithgod.com/theoriginal.htm[/url]

[Melchisedec]

[quote]Prayer is always answered, just not always how we want it to be.[/quote]

Gods will is done, prayers are not answered if they defy gods will

[quote] Even the medical community recognizes the benefits of prayer. There have been studies done that patients who have been prayed for actually do better than those who have not[/quote]

This can be attributed to possitive thinking, not that their is some mystical force at work. Meditation has always been proven to be beneficial for health, yet I doubt any catholics will be doing it anytime soon.

[Gal. 5:22,23]

If we don't receive what we ask for, then the "answer" is no. If God had said yes to everything I have asked for in the last 30 years, it would have been disastrous. Some things I have asked for in the past I now realize were not what was best.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Gal. 5:22,23' date='Mar 15 2005, 03:42 PM'] If we don't receive what we ask for, then the "answer" is no. If God had said yes to everything I have asked for in the last 30 years, it would have been disastrous. Some things I have asked for in the past I now realize were not what was best. [/quote]
Than why pray at all if god is gonna do what he wants to do. Why not let his will be done and not even pray?

[Gal. 5:22,23]

Because we're told that "The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective." God always does what He wants, but when you read Scripture, it's obvious that the prayers of some have altered the way He was going about it. For example, Abraham's pleading over Sodom, and Moses' intercession for the Israelites in the desert. It's also a time to fellowship with God, to talk to Him. I want to talk with and ask advice of the One I love.

Jesus promises that "His sheep will hear His voice." I don't hear it audibly, but I can assure you that I hear it. And believe me, I know when it's not Him as well.

[Paphnutius]

I would just like to add, that prayer is done for our benifit. I can go into a long explination of how Thomisitc theology would say that our prayers cannot change God (because God is pure actuality and no potentiality). The main point of prayer is for an interior change within ourselves. Be it accepting God's will, following God's will, or whatever. That is why some people can actually pray poorly (ie: for more money, fame, whatever). Prayer is meant for an interior conversion.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 15 2005, 04:23 PM'] I would just like to add, that prayer is done for our benifit. I can go into a long explination of how Thomisitc theology would say that our prayers cannot change God (because God is pure actuality and no potentiality). The main point of prayer is for an interior change within ourselves. Be it accepting God's will, following God's will, or whatever. That is why some people can actually pray poorly (ie: for more money, fame, whatever). Prayer is meant for an interior conversion. [/quote]
I appreciate the answer. Some people would have us believe that it is similar to magick where a prayer can alter something around us . Within us, I can believe that.

[Crusader_4]

If all good things come from God essentailly to prayer comes from God. Prayers i most helpful not to demand that God does his will but for us to realize his will. There is a difference there. At the same time i think there is a famous saying and this is pure piety but i think it has value. That when we die we will see what could have been done with the prayers we did not offer.

[phatcatholic]

could we not say that it is the Lord's will that his action be contingent upon us praying? could it be that God is just waiting for us to pray for something so that he can give it to us, and he will not give it to us unless we pray for it? i know that God often acts in our lives rather we pray for it or not. but, i also think that God is waiting for us to pray before he does it, so that we can show our faith in Him. prayer is an act of faith, and i think God responds to these acts of faith so as to increase our faith in him. of course, the ultimate test of faith is when he is seemingly ignoring us altogether. what do we do then? the fact is that we must have faith in the power of prayer and in Jesus' presence or even the "Our Father"--the prayer our Lord himself taught us--would be in vain.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='Mar 15 2005, 05:13 PM'] If all good things come from God essentailly to prayer comes from God. Prayers i most helpful not to demand that God does his will but for us to realize his will. There is a difference there. At the same time i think there is a famous saying and this is pure piety but i think it has value. That when we die we will see what could have been done with the prayers we did not offer. [/quote]
Almost sounds like meditation to me.

[scardella]

Erm... meditation can be a type of prayer... hence meditating on the mysteries of the rosary.

Additionally, I believe one of those studies tested people praying for a specific sick person [b]without the sick person knowing it[/b] and they still found it to make a difference.

I admit I could be remembering wrong, but chew on that for a bit, hmm?

[Gal. 5:22,23]

VERY interesting comments above. A new thread could probably be started as to whether our prayers move God in any way. I believe they do. I also believe what was stated above, and that is that prayer is primarily for us - for an interior conversion. We're told that our minds are being renewed, prayer is one vehicle for that.

Phatcatholic - are you in Louisville by any chance? That's home for me (miss it )

Yes, scardella, one study (by Duke Univ.) talked about the patients not knowing. They were prayed for by people of many denominations across the world.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Gal. 5:22,23

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Mar 15 2005, 05:22 PM'] could we not say that it is the Lord's will that his action be contingent upon us praying? could it be that God is just waiting for us to pray for something so that he can give it to us, and he will not give it to us unless we pray for it? i know that God often acts in our lives rather we pray for it or not. but, i also think that God is waiting for us to pray before he does it, so that we can show our faith in Him. prayer is an act of faith, and i think God responds to these acts of faith so as to increase our faith in him. of course, the ultimate test of faith is when he is seemingly ignoring us altogether. what do we do then? the fact is that we must have faith in the power of prayer and in Jesus' presence or even the "Our Father"--the prayer our Lord himself taught us--would be in vain. [/quote]
Once again that involves an interior change, a change to be open to His acting within us and I would totally agree with you. It is not that He is changing His act, that is always act with us and within us. The change occurs in us, not in Him.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

You know, prayer is a funny thing. I don't usually ask for things in particularly, and especially when it might be for me. I feel funny about that, like I don't deserve it, but the one thing I do ask for, always, is the grace to accept God's will - no matter what.

And God does answer prayers. We just may not like the answer.

Personally, I'd rather believe in God than go through life faithless. What a sad existance.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Mar 15 2005, 08:07 PM'] Personally, I'd rather believe in God than go through life faithless. What a sad existance. [/quote]
Its nice to hear people say that the life I lead and those I love in it , amounts to a sad existence. But I rather believe in things that are true, than to rely on faith which means I can believe in anything I want to. Say unicorns.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 16 2005, 11:52 AM'] Its nice to hear people say that the life I lead and those I love in it , amounts to a sad existence. But I rather believe in things that are true, than to rely on faith which means I can believe in anything I want to. Say unicorns. [/quote]
Been there, done that. It was sad. Have fun with the unicorns.