The Commercialization of God

[Iacobus]

[color=#FF9900][b][url="http://iacobus42.blogspot.com/"]The Commercialization of God[/url][/b][/color]


They say Americans think up things and do them before others, good old Yankee ingenuity, but this is by far something new. A church in Rockford is buying a shopping mall to create a 100,000 square foot "one-of-a-kind church."

In the novel A Stranger in a Strange Land, Jubal laments about the Fosterites, a religion that is on TV in the novel, "If people have to go to church why can't they be beaver dam respectably at it, like Catholics or Quakers." I agree with Jubal on this, however, I probly wouldn't go as far as to condem them for that. The more I learn about this church, the more worried I get.

My parents raised me to think that being Catholic or Christian or a member of Islam you are different from others in that you are Catholic or Islamic or Christian. This "difference" is something that you should respect and should be seperate from the rest of Culture. One shouldn't go to a Mosque or St. Peter's to have a fun time, you are there to pray and in that you are being culturally relevant. You can take what you learn there and walk out to apply it everywhere you go. As the words that end the Mass in the Latin Rite say: Ite, missa est. They literally mean, "Go, you are dismissed."

When you go back to the Late Latin root of mission, you see that it is missa, the same root as the word for the Catholic Mass. In the Mass, and more generally all worship, the goal is to ready for the mission of life so simply summed up by Francis of Assisi in that one should "preach the gospel at all times, using words when necessary. In that it gets you ready for this mission, which is culture independent.

The main theme of the Gospels, to stay in the Christian arena for now, my terra firma, does not change and that is what is vital. The Gospel is like a math book, it gives you examples of how to work a problem and some truths by which to advance, it isn't a guide with step by step instructions on how to overcome all problems. What I am getting out is that the Gospels cannot be "culturally irrelevant."

Though it begs the question to think of how the Gospels could be made "more culturally relevant." The church in question does that by trying to make things more fun and enjoyable. Before each service there is a café where you can get snacks to munch during the video taped sermons. Oh, and in case the overstimulating sermons and the appeal of the food to keep you aware there is music! Not hymns in the tradional sense, but Christian Rock music. That is a whole different post, but in short I really have to question rock music being part of a liturgy (as well as the merit of the genre).

I could go on and one about this, but something about making "church a natural, comfortable part of life" that doesn't require much worries me. Making it such easily leads to it becoming a "pit stop" or a lull every Sunday, not what it truly is.

That statement scares me further with the chairman's quote of "A mall is an exciting place for a church. It's not unnatural to be in that enviroment. We think it is very consisitent with the orginial DNA of our church." The fact that a shopping mall has become a "natural" part of our living enviroment merely hightlights the consumerism that runs amok in our culture and deeply stabs the Henry David Thoreau in me.

posted by Iacobus Rex

[crusader1234]

And here I was thinking that this had something to do with Mel Gibson cutting the Passion from the Passion of the Christ and rereleasing it for easter

[Lil Red]

i'm sorry, what are you getting at?

there are Catholic Masses held in malls across the country...faithful, orthodox, good Catholic Masses...you go to where the people are to spread the Gospel...you don't stay in your own little corner of the world.

[Iacobus]

What I am getting out is the merging of faith and culture to prevent conflicts between the two, one of the objects of this church. We are called to bear a cross, each of us, and for many today it is upkeeping an orthodox faith. There is nothing wrong with having Mass in a mall, per se, but when you make it in the mall to make people feel more comfortable and natural, I worry.

[Lil Red]

okay, i see where you're coming from...

[myduwigd]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 14 2005, 11:03 PM'] [color=#FF9900][b][url="http://iacobus42.blogspot.com/"]The Commercialization of God[/url][/b][/color]

Not hymns in the tradional sense, but Christian Rock music. That is a whole different post, but in short I really have to question rock music being part of a liturgy (as well as the merit of the genre).


posted by Iacobus Rex [/quote]
rock music isnt legitimate worship music? i spose it depends on what type of rock music you are talking about; if its that screaming carp then it aint worth it. but i have heard some really anointed rock music.

[Fidei Defensor]

I think the problem with rock music is that it isnt as.. reverant? as traditional music. That is not to say its bad, or that its not pleasing to God. But in the traditional Mass, its supposed to be a very sacred thing, and rock music isnt to right type of music to convey the respect and importance the mass is. Idk. I could be wrong, but is that what you are getting at?

[myduwigd]

i spose it could depend on what type of mass you are going for. maybe you could add a little rock music at lifeteen, but it would be weird to do so at a latin mass.
i get what you mean.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you,
I think Christian Rock is degrading to Our Lord Jesus Christ. I know that phatmass is based on christian Rap and Rock. Personally, I see this as sinful in nature, Rock N' Roll and Catholicism are two very different things. I love rock, but i don't think it has to do with Jesus. And Christ certainly has nothing to do with Rock N' Roll. I also am worried that church is becoming more of a "fun time" then worship, Ever since Vatican II. I think the Novus Ordo Mass, is not a very good Sacrifice to Our Lord. The Fact that we no longer pray towards the east is horriffing. The fact that in Many churches people hold hands during the Lord's Pray concerns me. We need to stop the Jesus Freak, cultural thing before Jesus stops bieng God and Jesus becomes "My homeboy"

yours in Christ,

Sam

[Luthien]

I don't think rock music during Mass is appropriate, but I dont think its evil either.

I listen to it, and I am in no way bringing Jesus down to a level of "homeboy" because of it. I still adore Him, and worship Him any chance I get. I don't see Him as just a buddy to solve my problems I see Him as my God and King, my Savior. Christian rock has not damaged my faith.

[Paphnutius]

Hmm, shakey ground there bud. I would agree with you that it does not have a place in the liturgy, but for private worship it can be used quite well. One has to remember that music is cultural. At one time the Waltz was thought lewd because it involved touching one another. I am not trying to break down the walls between sacred and secular music, but when it comes to private worship the lines are not as thick (still there though).

[Iacobus]

I don't have anything bad to say about Christian music, per se. Personally I don't listen to it but if you listen to it, c'est la vie. What I don't like, and I am sure many will agree with me, dust has even expressly said something to the effect, that it isn't to be part of the liturgy.

How we dress and act at Mass is, in our culture, a reflection of how we view it. When we go to interview for a job or go to prom we dress up and worry about our apperance because, wheter we like it or not, how we dress and behave shows the respect we have for the event. When I go to work even I wear a polo because it makes me more visually respectful to the golfers.

When we are taking part in the Mass we are in the physical presence of Jesus Christ Himself and should behave likewise. If I dress up in a suit for a formal dinner engagment, I should dress at least equally well to visit and recive my Lord.

The music we have at this event is much like the apperance of our person. When the music in the liturgy is for all intents and purposes modern rock or rap with more "moral" lyrics, are we being respectful? If taking a t-shirt and adding a tie dressing nicer than just a t-shirt?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Hey guys I love rock music. I even like Christian Rock, But it has no place with The Lord. I would [b]never [/b]use it for private worship. Rock music has gone farther then lude talking about drugs violence sex etc. all un-Catholic things.

[Paphnutius]

But they are talking about Christian Rock, that is rock that has a Christian, even Catholic, theme and lyrics to it. It is rock minus all of the lewd stuff.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

I see children, Parents, teenagers, at Mass who make no effort to look nice, when they are in the prescence of Our Lord. I at least trie to look presentable.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

I just think that putting Christian and Catholic themes into music that was once such horrible immoral music is not a good idea. Its like how protestants accuse us of Picking up pagan symbols and ideas to try to convert followrs. ie. Christmas on the winter solstice etc. and I don't think the Church should have to change herself to save souls.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[Paphnutius]

We see this action in God. He takes a sin and turns into a grace for us every time. That is a great attribute of the Church, we are able to Christianize old beliefs. All of the world, i would be willing to say, may be interperted through Christ. He is at the center of all creation. Yes the Church did take many pagan ideas and turn them into Christian themes, this is an ancient practice. Like the changing the names of cities that the Israelite's conquered, or other such instances. It was done to show that our God is supreme to your "god." One can almost look at it as a political tool if you will. The Church is universal, it has to be able to apply to all cultures and peoples.

[hopeful1]

wait, give an example of a Christian rock song that was used at mass. Sometimes at my church we sing songs like Breathe (usually at communion), Draw Me Close, Trading my sorrows (usually at the end), It is You (presentation of Gifts, toned WAAAAY down), and on some ocassions, Awesome God (beginning of mass). Personally i don't see anything wrong with these songs within the mass as long as they're done at appropriate times, and reverantly (the hand motions for some of the songs i listed tho, i don't know, i think that's another story). But if we're talking about "Joy" by the Newsboys or " Missing Person" by Michael W. Smith, then it wouldn't be appropriate at mass, maybe for a P&W service for like a youth group or something, but not with in the mass. But if i'm wrong, would someone please correct me and explain why?

[MichaelFilo]

The guitar isn't an accepted insturment int he Mass....


And a lifeteen Mass and a regular Mass are botht he same MAss. No rock music, no rap music, no any music other than the hymns using the allowed insturments. It is really sick when people think they can give advice as to how the liturgy should go. Revolting even... what is so hard by letting the Church pick what it thinks is best for the Mass.... considering God speaks through the Church... I'd rather leave the ideas up to Him.


And agian, rock music isn't liturgically chaste, and isn't allowed during Mass. To say it is or should be in the Mass is disobedient.

Christian Rock and Rap have a place outside of the Mass, and that should be respected, since offering no alternitive to secular rock and rpa is wrong. And as far as what you think teh Church should and shouldn't do to save souls is silly. You'd have to admit that the Roman Rite shouldn't be so much into the rationalism and be more into the myusticism of the Eastern Churches. You'd also have to admit that Celtic Rite should still exist and that the Roman Rite and the Celtic Rite shouldn't have become one to better accomdate the European unity.... Yeah right dude... the Church applies itself to cultures and changes them, but each culture is different and should be appreciated for that. Even something used for mostly immorality is not immoral in itself and can be used for good.

God bless,
Mikey

Edited March 16, 2005 by MichaelFilo