Vatican Prevails On The English Missal Translation

[cmotherofpirl]

Vatican prevails on the English Missal translation

The stalemate over the revised English translation of the Roman Missal appears settled following a meeting between Vatican officials and the presidents of the world’s English-speaking bishops’ conferences.

The Tablet reports that the confrontation ends an attempt by the Vatican begun three years ago to "wrest control of what it regarded as politically correct translations insufficiently faithful to the Latin".

In 1999 Cardinal Medina Estévez of the Congregation for Divine Worship ordered a shake-up of ICEL. In 2001 the Vatican congregation issued Liturgiam Authenticam, an instruction requiring translators to adhere more literally to Latin texts.

In April last year, the Congregation for Divine Worship created an English translation oversight committee headed by now Cardinal George Pell, Vox Clara.

The Tablet says the recent breakthrough was due in part to a change in personnel at the top of ICEL. ICEL’s new executive secretary Fr Bruce Harbert has a concern with fidelity to the Latin that is close to the Vatican’s.

Cardinal Pell told The Tablet that Vox Clara was “simply a committee of advice to the Congregation for the Sacraments, and no more than that”. He said he was confident ICEL’s new translation of the Roman Missal would be faithful to the directions of Liturgiam Authenticam.

“The language will be slightly more sacral, not everyday language”, Cardinal Pell said. “But given the significance of what we are enacting in the Eucharist, my ambition is that ICEL will produce beautiful and faithful translations of the Roman Missal. And I hope we will have the translation in closer to two years than three, four,

[Katholikos]

It can't come too soon! Thanks be to God!

[foundsheep]

This is probably a dumb question but how does this affect us?

[Uncle Gus]

Hopefully, we'll get a better idea of God from the more accurate translations. For example, "the love of God the Father, the peace of Christ and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all." "Communion" is a much more theologically significant word than "friendship."

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Our priest says fellowship. I cant wait for all these changes. It sounds cool. Hey does anyone have the link to that Papal letter that forbids holding of hand during the Lord's Prayer?

[Uncle Gus]

That would be a good one to get hold of. I echo that request.

[cmotherofpirl]

Orans

Many Catholics are in the habit of holding their hands in the “Orans” posture during the Lord’s prayer along with the celebrant. Some do this on their own as a private devotional posture while some congregations make it a general practice for their communities.

Is this practice permissible under the current rubrics, either as a private practice not something adopted by a particular parish as a communal gesture? What is the status of the bishops’ proposal to include this practice as part of the liturgical norms for the US?

No position is prescribed in the present Sacramentary for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer. While the recently approved revised Sacramentary does provide for the use of the orans gesture by members of the assembly during the Lord’s Prayer, the revised Sacramentary may not be used until it has been confirmed by the Holy See. I might also note that in the course of its discussion of the this question, the Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy expressed a strong preference for the orans gesture over the holding of hands since the focus of the Lord’s Prayer is a prayer to the Father and not primarily an expression of community and fellowship.

__________________________________

Committee on the Liturgy

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

3211 4th Street, N.E., Washington, DC 20017-1194 (202) 541-3060

June 03, 2003 Copyright © by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

[Uncle Gus]

To clarify, this is the Orans position:

That's how I prefer to pray the Our Father.

[cmotherofpirl]

Yes offering our empty hands to God so He may fill us with His love.

[Ellenita]

I haven't seen anyone except the priest pray with their hands in that position in the anglican church, but I have seen everyone in charismatic churches pray like that!

Funny, I can't imagine praying Our Father like that.

[Uncle Gus]

Yes offering our empty hands to God so He may fill us with His love.

Hmmm, I've never thought of it like that before. That's a good image.

My favourite is that we are praying to Our Father, our Daddy, our Abba, and we want to be with Him, we want Him to hold us. And what do children do when they want their Daddy to pick them up and hold them? They reach up with their arms.

Ellenita, you should try it some time. Remember, that we are humans, both spiritual and physical. When we pray, we don't pray with one half of ourselves, we pray with our whole being, physical and spiritual, so praying with your arms spread open is one way of praying with your physical self as well as your spiritual self.

[Ellenita]

Uncle Gus, I think I will! I thought 'how beautiful' when I saw the picture you posted.

Of course, now I have to get past my 'english reserve'!!

:D

[Anna]

I don't recommend using the position just yet.

It isn't approved yet.

Also, this is a gesture traditionally reserved as a priestly gesture, and done only by the celebrant.

If I lifted my hands at Mass anywhere, I'd wanna lift them when the priest says, 'lift up your hearts," I always feel like elevating my hands at that point, and saying, "We lift them up to the Lord!" But we're not supposed to add stuff to the Mass, including gestures!

Pax Christi. <><

But praying the Lord's Prayer, or any prayer, outside of Mass using that guesture is just fine. ;)

Edited November 3, 2003 by Anna

[Anna]

Just found this from the September 2003 quarterly issue of Adoremus Bulletin:

http://www.adoremus.org/0903Posture.html

The "Orans" posture

"The bishops actually voted against people assuming the "orans" posture for the Lord's Prayer (this is the posture of the priest), though some liturgists have promoted it strenuously. No gesture at all is specified during the Lord's Prayer in the GIRM. (Some bishops and liturgists had objected to hand-holding, however, a gesture that originated in Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and was popularized by some charismatic groups.)

[Uncle Gus]

Oh. I think I'll talk to a priest about it then. Until then, I'll stop using that posture.

[PedroX]

I used to be an addictions counselor, and everytime I'm asked to hold hands during the Lord's Prayer, it takes me back to all the addicts I've loved and worked with. I always want to end with "It works if you work it, keep coming back!!" Just like we did at AA groups

peace..

[foundsheep]

what about putting your hands in a prayer position during the lords prayer?

[Anna]

No problemo! :)

[BLAZEr]

Hand holding . . . bit of a "no no" since it imposes a "private gesture" onto the people around you . . . Hands folded together (see Foundsheeps picture) is perfectly acceptable and in fact it is the constant tradition of the Church at prayer (especially mass) just look at all art for the last 2000 years . . .

Orans? well it's debatable . . . the posture is prescribed throughout the Mass only for the priest (read the sacramentary) . . . so when the people do a posture that the priest does what are we saying? That we're priests? I hope not . . . but if you read any of the documents supporting this posture they tend to suggest that its our role "in our royal priesthood" . . . or some such language . . . and I think it's ideological, an attempt to dismantle the sacramental priesthood . . .

So what do Orthodox Roman Catholic Bishops say? Bruskewitz: No Chaput: Since its not explicitly described what the laity's posture is at the Lord's prayer, you can do what you want individually and the pastor or the parish is not to "force" any particular posture Morlino: no

By the way . . . I can't wait to start saying "And with your Spirit" after "The Lord be with You.". . . every other language already says that, why are English translators so beaver dam arrogant?

Edited November 3, 2003 by BLAZEr

[Guest Legion]

To add my 2 cents in:

Rome does not tell you what not to do during Mass, they tell you what to do. So this idea of "Well, they don't say I can't do it" mentality leads to us having lay people giving homilies, having dances during Mass, applauding during and after Mass, etc.... Just remember that the Mass is to be familiar and recognizable any where you go. I prefere folding my hands and bowing my head.

Totus Tuus