Cardinal Mahoney...

[Thy Geekdom Come]

...was just using a glass chalice for the Precious Blood on the TV...

[Zoecool13]

where did that rule come from? Is it really that big of a deal?

[kateri05]

lol...... ahh my diocese. got love her.

oh and i got my first view of the cathedral today. can i just say OLA is grand spanking OOOOUGLY

[kateri05]

its a big deal because
A) you're not supposed to
2) its not precious
and C) when someone drops it and the precious blood shatters all over the place, it wouldn't be cool.

oh and 4) its just part of the larger issue of non-submission to the Vatican

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Zoecool13' date='Apr 1 2005, 08:24 PM'] where did that rule come from?  Is it really that big of a deal? [/quote]
It's a HUGE deal...it must be precious metal, preferably gold or gold inlaid.

Glass isn't even a solid...it's a highly viscous liquid. The Precious Blood will soak into the glass. Not appropriate.

Could be worse...the Grand Island diocese had wooden chalices until they got their new bishop.

[Ash Wednesday]

Someone referred to him as Cardinal Baloney... hehehehe

[MC Just]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Apr 1 2005, 07:27 PM'] Someone referred to him as Cardinal Baloney... hehehehe [/quote]
lol

[Zoecool13]

the only one that makes sense, is for if it falls and shatters the Precious Blood would be all over. and I completely agree with that logic. I agree that we do have a problem with not following the Vatican's rules, but just like some American laws/rules, some Vatican rules just don't make sense. Personally, when I see the Precious Blood poured into the clear chalices, it reminds me so much that there's Jesus' blood, right there in front of my eyes.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Zoecool13' date='Apr 1 2005, 08:29 PM'] the only one that makes sense, is for if it falls and shatters the Precious Blood would be all over. and I completely agree with that logic. I agree that we do have a problem with not following the Vatican's rules, but just like some American laws/rules, some Vatican rules just don't make sense. Personally, when I see the Precious Blood poured into the clear chalices, it reminds me so much that there's Jesus' blood, right there in front of my eyes. [/quote]
1. Don't ever dismiss the rules of the Vatican.
2. All the reasons are very good. Our Lord's Blood is worthy of a golden chalice.
3. This is a MAJOR disobedience issue.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Zoecool13' date='Apr 1 2005, 06:29 PM'] the only one that makes sense, is for if it falls and shatters the Precious Blood would be all over. [/quote]
Well, if someone drops a gold chalice, it would spill, so i dont think the shattering is the problem.

[MC Just]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Apr 1 2005, 07:32 PM'] 1. Don't ever dismiss the rules of the Vatican.
2. All the reasons are very good. Our Lord's Blood is worthy of a golden chalice.
3. This is a MAJOR disobedience issue. [/quote]
Amen

[Zoecool13]

It doesn't have to be a golden chalice, and I'm not saying Christ's blood isn't worth it, I just would like to know the origins of this rule. St. Anselm of Canterbury said you must question your faith in order to understand, grow in, and truly live your faith. We all should know that the Vatican has not been always right... Something we all need to start accepting a lot more considering whoever the next Pope will be, is probably going to make some changes to a few of the present rules/laws.

[Aloysius]

I saw that, but the stem of it had gold, so that's a start. and the Fox News newsperson actually said that what we were seeing was what is to millions of Catholics the Body and Blood of Christ. Not sacramental wine/bread, but the Body and Blood. That was nice to hear.

anyway, I think the fact that the stem was made of gold satisfies the letter of the law, but clearly in the spirit of the law the whole thing should have been gold. (did I just steal the liberal's favorite phrase and use it correctly? yeah i did )

it's about showing reverence. it's not like they couldn't have a gold chalice very easily if they'd like.

anyway, there's no need to get really mad over it. but don't minimize it either. It'll all be okay.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Apr 1 2005, 08:40 PM'] I saw that, but the stem of it had gold, so that's a start. and the Fox News newsperson actually said that what we were seeing was what is to millions of Catholics the Body and Blood of Christ. Not sacramental wine/bread, but the Body and Blood. That was nice to hear.

anyway, I think the fact that the stem was made of gold satisfies the letter of the law, but clearly in the spirit of the law the whole thing should have been gold. (did I just steal the liberal's favorite phrase and use it correctly? yeah i did )

it's about showing reverence. it's not like they couldn't have a gold chalice very easily if they'd like.

anyway, there's no need to get really mad over it. but don't minimize it either. It'll all be okay. [/quote]
It doesn't even fulfill the letter of the law...it should be gold on the inside.

Zoecool, regardless of whether the Vatican has made mistakes, any mistakes which have been made have been made by individuals. What we have here is a law, a reasonable and understandable one, not to mention an admirable one, and we owe the Vatican our obedience. It's just obvious...it really shouldn't even have to be a law...who puts something so precious in glass?

[Zoecool13]

I put something precious in a glass case, not a gold case. I'm not saying that we shouldn't follow the law...I'm just saying that i don't agree with it. Just like I don't agree with the speed limit on most roads. But the most important thing is the distribution of the two species, when people are in mass, and start to think "oh, this parish isn't following the rules" which I myself have caught myself doing, takes away from the important thing.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Apr 1 2005, 07:27 PM'] Someone referred to him as Cardinal Baloney... hehehehe [/quote]
I've heard the cathedral refered to as the Raj Mahal.

[Q the Ninja]

Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[quote] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.205 The Bishops' Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio  by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,206 so that honor will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.207 [/quote]

GIRM:

[quote]326. In the choice of materials for sacred furnishings, besides those which are traditional, others are acceptable if by contemporary standards they are considered to be noble, are durable, and are well suited for sacred use. In the dioceses of the United States of America these materials may include wood, stone, or metal which are solid and appropriate to the purpose for which they are employed.[/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Zoecool13' date='Apr 1 2005, 08:49 PM'] I put something precious in a glass case, not a gold case. I'm not saying that we shouldn't follow the law...I'm just saying that i don't agree with it. Just like I don't agree with the speed limit on most roads. But the most important thing is the distribution of the two species, when people are in mass, and start to think "oh, this parish isn't following the rules" which I myself have caught myself doing, takes away from the important thing. [/quote]
The important thing is the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist...when we use glass, we do not properly reflect the glory of that.

[Aloysius]

Mother Theresa made sure every parish in India had golden vessels for the Eucharist. The poor people wanted nothing less to show reverence to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

L.A. Has some of the richest Catholics.. and they put it in glass.


no one is saying this is the most important thing, but just because there are much more important things doesn't mean we should minimalize this. all things, big and small, need to be dealt with.

[Q the Ninja]

Obedience should be important, but we should treat our Bishops as Christ, as said Ignatius of Antioch.