Progressive revelation

[Matt Black]

What is the Catholic understanding of this, with particular reference to Tradition?

Yours in Christ

Matt

[cmotherofpirl]

Revelation ended with the death of St John the Apostle.

[Matt Black]

If revelation ended with the death of John, what about the Rosary, the adoration of the Virgin Mary, purgatory and other teachings of Tradition?

Yours in Christ

Matt

[cmotherofpirl]

Purgatory is in the bible and tradition, we don't adore Mary, and the Rosary is a gospel based prayer. Tradition is all the things taught by the Apostles not written in scripture. It is older than the scripture writings.

Edited April 4, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Brother Adam]

Matt,

Please read Dei Verbum. It is short and should explain what you are looking for on Revelation.

Divine Revelation ended with the death of the last apostle. Private revelation has continued to some extent, but is not univerally accepted by the Church. Revelation is not ongoing, though some in the Church will try to teach you this.

As far as purgatory and such, doctrine does develop. It has always been believed, but new terms, names, theories, and ideas develop out of the councils. The first Apostles would have not had the understanding of the Trinity that St. Aquinas gave us.

[Matt Black]

OK my apologies - I am not clued up on terminology. Let me rephrase the OP question then: to what extent does doctrine develop?

Yours in Christ

Matt

[Circle_Master]

Is not the immaculate conception an accepted revelation from ex cathedra speaking?

[Brother Adam]

Let's take the Trinity as a for instance.

In the Apostles time they would have had a basic knowledge that there was only one God but three divine persons. However, they did not know how to explain it. Many famous examples came to be, such as the three leaf clover. At times these examples were heretical (such as the three leaf clover) because they did not adequately explain the nature of the Trinity. Over time, the doctrine of the Trinity develops.

If a doctrine is not challenged by any group or person (Such as Arius or Pelegius) then the Church does not call a council to formally define the doctrine. When it is called into question (such as the nature of the divinity of Christ with Arius) then the Church formally defines the doctrine. The Church has always believed in the divinity of Christ, but it is not formally defined until the council of Nicea because at this time the heresy of Arianism is calling the doctrine into question.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Circle_Master' date='Apr 4 2005, 12:04 PM'] Is not the immaculate conception an accepted revelation from ex cathedra speaking? [/quote]
The immaculate conception is not private revelation. It has always been believed.

[Brother Adam]

And the rosary on the other hand is a private revelation. No one is required to believe in or pray the rosary.

[Matt Black]

Could it not be said then that Luther was developing doctrine that was already contained within Scripture?

Yours in Christ

Matt

[Circle_Master]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 4 2005, 12:07 PM'] The immaculate conception is not private revelation. It has always been believed. [/quote]
Where are you sourcing this from? Last time I debated on here all catholics were in agreement that this was an ex cathedra speaking. There also is no evidence in the early church [i]anywhere[/i] of the immaculate conception existing.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Matt Black' date='Apr 4 2005, 09:45 AM'] Could it not be said then that Luther was developing doctrine that was already contained within Scripture?

Yours in Christ

Matt [/quote]
No, Luther's views are not a development of doctrine properly understood, nor would he have claimed that in reference to his own teaching. Moreover, it is a doctrine of the faith that the sole authentic interpreter of divine revelation (scripture and tradition) is the living Magisterium of the Church, i.e., the Pope and the bishops in communion with him, understood diachronically, and not merely synchronically.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Circle_Master' date='Apr 4 2005, 09:45 AM'] Where are you sourcing this from? Last time I debated on here all catholics were in agreement that this was an ex cathedra speaking. There also is no evidence in the early church [i]anywhere[/i] of the immaculate conception existing. [/quote]
The belief that Mary is conceived in a state of grace is implicitly contained within scripture and tradition; and so it is not a "new" revelation, nor is it a "new" doctrine. Thus, Blessed Pope Pius IX's Apostolic Constitution [u]Ineffabilis Deus[/u] was not teaching something new or novel; instead, the teaching in that decree is simply the explication of a belief already implicitly held by the Church.

[Circle_Master]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Apr 4 2005, 01:11 PM'] The belief that Mary is conceived in a state of grace is implicitly contained within scripture and tradition; and so it is not a "new" revelation, nor is it a "new" doctrine. [/quote]
You are saying that the [b]conception[/b] of Mary is implicitly declared in [b]scripture[/b] and in [b]tradition[/b]. Please provide the implicit statements.