Matt 23

[Mikhail]

If any of you read Matt 23, you will read a rant of of Jesus'.

One set of verses in particular I would like to point out.

7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

I'm puzzled why the Catholic priests are called Fathers, when Christ specifically said not to call a man your father. Why are bishops and Popes set up so high and wear such colourful clothes and live in such lavish dwellings? It makes no sense to me.

[Quietfire]

Then read verse 11 again.
Pope John Paul II was the greatest amongst us, yes. But he was also our servant even more so.
Then read verse 12.
WE revered our Pope, yet in turn he was a most humble man.

Edited April 10, 2005 by Quietfire

[Guest Eremite]

"Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel." (1Corinthians 4:15)

As for the vestments, they are sacred garb that sets our ministers apart as ministers of God's Church. Liturgical vestments are especially important, as the priest acts In Persona Christi (In the Person of Christ), and so must reflect the High Priest he represents here on earth.

As for where Bishops live, they are just the product of the flock wanting to provide for their ministers (this is particularly true in Vatican City). External surroundings, however, do not indicate a person's humility, or lack thereof. Their life speaks to that.

Edited April 10, 2005 by Eremite

[Quietfire]

Mikhail,
If I am not mistaken, that particular passage warns us not to worship anyone (or anything) other than GOD, you do understand that, right?

Veneration is not worship, I assume you know that too, correct?

If so then what is your arguement? You should have answered your own question.

Pax

Edited April 10, 2005 by Quietfire

[God Conquers]

Why do you call your dad Father?

Jesus is reminding us to place no one above God.

We don't.

[Brother Adam]

Once again they have hit the nail right on the head. Jesus isn't telling us never to use the termonology 'father', obviously he at times recognized that our biological parents are our 'mothers and fathers'. The commandments tell us to honor our 'mother and father'. Priests are spiritual fathers aiding and helping the growth of Christians in the faith. There is only one God in heaven who is Our Father, this point is clear in Catholic doctrine.

btw, priests are old fashion in a way. They are wearing the same clothes they have worn over almost 2000 years.

[God Conquers]

Hmmm...

Black pants and shirt are colourful? I must be missing something.

Most Bishops live in a regular ol' rectory or house.... ususally with other priests.... the Pope lives in a single apartment.... so I'm not really sure where you're going with this.

[Dave]

I'd like to add, Mikhail, that in that same passage you cited, Jesus told us not to be called "Master" or "Teacher." If your interpretation of what Jesus said is correct, then you couldn't address any man as "Mr. So-and-so" because "Mister" comes from the Greek (?) word for "Master." Nor could you address any doctor as "Dr. So-and-so" because that word comes from the Greek (?) word for "Teacher." Heck, you wouldn't be able to call medical doctors "doctors" anyway; you'd have to stick with "physicians."

[Benedict]

Mister developed from the Latin [i]magnus [/i]through [i]magis [/i]and [i]magister[/i]. It then went through Old French as [i]maistre[/i], to Old English as [i]maegister[/i], then master, and now mister.

Doctor comes from the [i]doct[/i]- stem of the Latin verb [i]docere[/i], to teach.

It is possible that Latin took the terms from Greek but I could not find that anywhere.

Regardless, the point is quite clear.