What if the next pope permitted contraception

[AngelofJesus]

Where would you stand? Blindly follow the pope or could you even say blindly because Jesus did say whatever you bind here on earth it will be bound in heaven. On the other hand, the teachings of Pope John Paul the Great explicitly explains the evilness of contraception and how it promotes a culture of death.

[thessalonian]

The only possibility of it happenening is if an anti-pope were somehow elected, which I find to be very unlikely. If it were to happen we will know I believe. There have been some "prophecies" by alleged apparitions that there will be an anti-pope elected.

The teaching against contraception is an infallible part of the teaching of the ordinary magesterium. So a legitimate Pope will not overturn the teaching. It just won't happen.

Blessings

[AngelofJesus]

Didn't Cardinal Tettamanzi condone the use of condoms for prostitutes in Milan? Yet he is one of the leading papabili.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='AngelofJesus' date='Apr 14 2005, 11:40 AM'] Didn't Cardinal Tettamanzi condone the use of condoms for prostitutes in Milan? Yet he is one of the leading papabili. [/quote]
As I recall it was in the 4th or 5th century. There was a man who had ambitions for being Pope. There was a queen who had a favorite heresy. I think it was Monophysitism or something like that. The conspired to get him elected Pope, with his promise that he would decree her favorite heresy. Well they got him elected but it seems he could not bring himself to fullfill his part of the bargain. He died in exile, being true to the teachings of the Church.

The Holy Spirit is involved in all of this. It will not happen. False doctrine will not be bound for the Holy Spirit cannot bind a lie. The gates of hell will not prevail. It's a matter of trust and I fully trust so you are not going to get me to speculate on the answer. I say with all confidence, knowing that it will not happen that if it did happen that a properly elected Pope would do such a thing I would become an aethist.

[thessalonian]

By the way there have been a few very unseemly popes if not down right wicked. It seems they were too busy sinning to care about doctrinal matters. Thus they never made any decree that was not consistent with Catholic teaching. God is running the show in Rome, no matter who gets elected. It's his promise to us.

God bless

[God Conquers]

There's just no way this would happen. none.

[AngelofJesus]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Apr 14 2005, 09:59 AM'] I say with all confidence, knowing that it will not happen that if it did happen that a properly elected Pope would do such a thing I would become an aethist. [/quote]
That is what I am having to struggle with. What will become of me if that happens. How far left are the liberal cardinals l, ironically, Tettamanzi is considered conservative. If a liberal is elected what are we looking at? Women priests? Married priests?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I think I would start pushing pigs off of rooftops to see if it's really true.

[Tony]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Apr 14 2005, 01:42 PM'] I think I would start pushing pigs off of rooftops to see if it's really true. [/quote]

[kateri05]

i wonder what kind of oinking noise that would make... :thinking:

[thessalonian]

[quote name='AngelofJesus' date='Apr 14 2005, 12:37 PM'] That is what I am having to struggle with.  What will become of me if that happens.  How far left are the liberal cardinals l, ironically, Tettamanzi is considered conservative.  If a liberal is elected what are we looking at?  Women priests? Married priests? [/quote]
You fear things that will not happen. Theres a 2000 year track record to back it up. Trust God. No corrupt doctrines have entered church teaching. Not even some that were later backed out. It hasn't happened and never will and not all the popes have been holy men concerned with the good of the Church. Be not afraid. If a liberal were to get elected he would not elevate his errors.

Edited April 14, 2005 by thessalonian

[jingsmile]

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Be not afraid...instead, be excited! This is an exciting and historic time for the Church, and I believe God will grant us another wonderful pope who will continue to show the world what it means to be catholic...and that means reiterating the Church's teachings and doctrines don't change on a whim.



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[MC Just]

He would be an anti-Pope. We've had those before.

[Myles Domini]

There is no chance that these hypothetical situations i.e. allowed contraception could possibly happen thanks to the nature of the Church. A Pope is the defender of the deposit of faith and does not enjoy the charism of inspiration therefore he cannot change it. Think of the Church somewhat like Michaelangelo looking at a block of stone. The Church knows there is [i]something[/i] in the marble, something real, something bold, something beautiful but the ideas are in abstract not in concrete. She requires 'divine assistance' (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church point 892) to carve out whats there, since alone she cant see it. In one age she might chip out a silhoette of say...a nose and then in another age craft into shape and then in another age smooth out the rough edge etc.etc. This is the work of the Ordinary Magisterium: With divine assistance the Church led by the Pope's gradually uncover what the deposit of faith says until they're more or less in a position to see it definitively. Definitve being one of the conditions, of course, of an exercise of the extraordinary magisterium (Papal infalibility or Ecumenical Council Canons).

Now in light of this we can see that there is no way even the most liberal of liberal Popes could introduce the changes some people have dreamed because it is set in stone that, for example, the Church doesnt have the power to ordain women. The shape in the stone has already taken shape there is no way it can be uncarved, the only thing that can be done to a finger when it appears on a marble statue is that it gets broken. Now of course there has been no exercise of the extraordinary magisterium to give the teaching of the Church on a myriad of issues and there probably wont be for ages (i.e. the feastday of the Assumption was celebrated in some places as soon as the 5th century but only became a dogma in the 1950s) however any such decisions would have to factor in the shape of the sculpture. The Pope doesnt have the ability to change the deposit of faith just to clarify the understanding we have of it i.e. abortion. Killing babies in the womb is wrong, the Torah says a man who causes a woman to miscarry must die. The didache reiterates this stance and so has Catholicism throughout history. However, the Church has in recent times said that if the Mother and Baby will die if the pregnancy goes to term the pregnancy can be terminated on the principle of double effect. This is not a break with the form of the sculpture, rather it takes the outline of a finger and polishes it up adding a finger nail and skin lines. It doesnt make abortion right, simply more clearly teaches how far it is and isnt permitted. A future Pope likewise would have to take this into account if he wished to add any more details to this finger. He couldnt break the finger off because he didnt create it Christ did.

Thus whoever is elected we shouldnt worry. The Pope's do not have the kind of powers you imagine them to. Even if there was a lefty on the throne if he tried to 'forget' the previous traditions he would be 'ultra vires'.

[thessalonian]

[quote]does not enjoy the charism of inspiration therefore he cannot change it.[/quote]

That is a good point I hadn't thought of. Interprutation upon which infallibility is based and divine inspiration upon which the writing of scripture and the institution of sacred tradition is based are two different charisms.

Edited April 14, 2005 by thessalonian

[Socrates]

It won't happen, and it's pointless to get all worried that it will happen.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='kateri05' date='Apr 14 2005, 12:48 PM'] i wonder what kind of oinking noise that would make... :thinking: [/quote]
SQUEAL LIKE A PIG!!!!!

[curtins]

yea im a bit worried that the new pope might not stick to the Doctrine and let popular demand and opinion stear the course of the Chruch but we have to pray and have faith in the Holy Spirit that he will chose someone worthy and able to fill John Paul's post and lead us with orthodoxy

[Luthien]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Apr 14 2005, 05:35 PM'] SQUEAL LIKE A PIG!!!!! [/quote]
Please dont quote that...



its disturbing.

[Aloysius]

how exactly does an anti-pope become an anti-pope? doesn't there have to be something invalid about his election? I mean, it couldn'thappen that this pope does something like that and then the next pope declares him an anti-pope, could it?