Presumption

[mulls]

Presumption that you yourself, or somebody else, is in heaven is wrong, correct?


I want to make sure I have the definition right before we move on, so let me know, gimme some catechism up in this piece.

[jasJis]

I had to read that like 5 times to understand.

Are you asking if it is wrong to assume that someone is in heaven? Or do you mean assuming that yourself or somebody else is going to go to heaven when they die is wrong?

[mulls]

oops sorry.

i did mean assuming that yourself or somebody is going to heaven is wrong.


all i know is that in the church there is something called 'presumption' which is deemed wrong....i just want the correct definition of it to start.

[Nicole8223]

From the catechsim:

[quote]2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God's almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit). [/quote]

I always thought presumption wa sinning with the thought that "Oh, I can just go to Confession after I do this."

[Dave]

[quote name='Nicole8223' date='Apr 14 2005, 03:22 PM'] I always thought presumption wa sinning with the thought that "Oh, I can just go to Confession after I do this." [/quote]
Yes, it's that too.

[mulls]

ok, is there a specific thing called the "sin of presumption?"

i know i've heard this before.

[Dave]

Yes, there is.

[Cam42]

When one presumes, that is not the sin, in and of itself. The sin is against hope.

[quote]The first commandment is also concerned with sins against hope, namely, despair and presumption:

By despair, man ceases to hope for his personal salvation from God, for help in attaining it or for the forgiveness of his sins. Despair is contrary to God's goodness, to his justice - for the Lord is faithful to his promises - and to his mercy. (CCC 2091)[/quote]

[quote]There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God's almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit). (CCC 2092)[/quote]

Which was stated earlier. But the sin isn't presumption, it is a sin against hope.

Hope is:
[quote]Hope is the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ's promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit. "Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful."  "The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life." (CCC 1817)[/quote]

When one presumes, he is abandoning the desire, by thinking that it is something that he [i]will attain[/i] as opposed to something he [i]can attain.[/i] When one does this, he assumes that he somehow doesn't need the salvific act of Christ and his promises. To sin against hope is to lose trust in the Holy Spirit.

Assumption and Presumption are closely related.

Cam