A Modest Proposal

[Brother Adam]

Think fast:

You are in a room with a group of your peers discussing the finer qualities to fishing line when a man walks in the room with a gun. He points it at your friend and tells him "Goodbye Sam, see you in hell".

What do you do? Is it morally acceptable if you are in a position to do so, to tackle the man with the gun, bringing him down and incapacitating him until the police arrive?

Of course it is.

Is it morally acceptable to take any means necessary to protect the lives of your peers up to taking the life of the aggressor, so long as the intent isn't to take the life of the aggressor, but to save the lives of your friends?

Of course.




Now consider:

You are at an abortion clinic praying the rosary. A woman who is clearly 8 months pregnant does not care to listen to you and walks into the clinic. Out of care for the life of the baby you decide to break civil law and enter the clinic to try to continue to talk the woman out of murder.

You see the woman lying on the table. You see the doctor about the insert the instrument which will murder the child. Is it morally right to stop the doctor from murdering the baby? Is it morally acceptable to take any means necessary to save the life of another innocent person, including and up to taking the life of the doctor, so long as the intent is not to take the life of the doctor, but to save the life of the child?

I believe so. Sometimes we must break civil law in order to follow moral and eternal law.

Edited April 15, 2005 by Brother Adam

[Guest Eremite]

If the doctor is in the act of committing an abortion, and you happen to walk by, yes, you would have to restrain him.

If an abortionist is not in the act of committing an abortion, no you may not blow up his house.

And no, you cannot kill the mother who is going to have an abortion, because that would result in the death of her child as well.

[Brother Adam]

But we are not talking about blowing anything up. Nor are we talking about harming the baby and the mother. Stay within the bounds of the situation.

[jezic]

it is a good thing there aren't abortion clinics around here cause then i might have to decide. When faced with the question, i don't think it is so much do you think, but would you is the better question.

So everybody,

would you stop the doctor and possibly take his life?

[Guest Eremite]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 15 2005, 03:23 PM'] But we are not talking about blowing anything up. Nor are we talking about harming the baby and the mother. Stay within the bounds of the situation. [/quote]
I understand that. But people take these situations and use them to justify blowing up people's houses.

Religious people can be nuts sometimes.

But how often do people happen to come upon an abortion in action (those opposed to it, that is)?

[Brother Adam]

My next question is:

Is it then morally (not necessarily civilly) right to enter, purposefully an abortion clinic, knowing the expressed purpose of the clinic is murder, to see if a murder is taking place and to stop the murder?

[DianJo]

I would say No to your last question (as much as I would love to say Yes!). Although your intention is to do good by saving the life of the child, you cannot kill the doctor or do anything that might result in the death of the doctor. Here is what the Catechism says about that:

II. GOOD ACTS AND EVIL ACTS

1755 A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself (such as praying and fasting "in order to be seen by men").

The object of the choice can by itself vitiate an act in its entirety. There are some concrete acts - such as fornication - that it is always wrong to choose, because choosing them entails a disorder of the will, that is, a moral evil.

1756 It is therefore an error to judge the morality of human acts by considering only the intention that inspires them or the circumstances (environment, social pressure, duress or emergency, etc.) which supply their context. There are acts which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; such as blasphemy and perjury, murder and adultery. One may not do evil so that good may result from it.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 15 2005, 03:28 PM'] My next question is:

Is it then morally (not necessarily civilly) right to enter, purposefully an abortion clinic, knowing the expressed purpose of the clinic is murder, to see if a murder is taking place and to stop the murder? [/quote]
It would depend on the reasonable prospects for success. Seeing as an abortion clinic is a business, your prospects for success in finding anything, let alone doing anything meaningful about it, is slim to none. Security would have you shot or in jail before you could say Roe V Wade.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 15 2005, 04:28 PM'] My next question is:

Is it then morally (not necessarily civilly) right to enter, purposefully an abortion clinic, knowing the expressed purpose of the clinic is murder, to see if a murder is taking place and to stop the murder? [/quote]
Therein lies the question which interests me. We pray outside a local clinic. I've been there a few times (now it's harder, though, because they started shifting their hours around).