A question for all parents about vaccines

[Donna]

[i]Tons.[/i]

Tons of thoughts and regrets and rage.

No vaccines anymore! Even my non-Catholic SIL has stopped doing them, because of the health threats. It's crazy...a crazy inverted evil system, this health thing and I make war on it by praying the Holy Face of Jesus to smash it on its ass.

[Um, that over-the-top remark has to do w/ much more than the sickness of using tainted vaccines, and has more than my own suffering in mind, via docs and standard treatment protocols. But understand also, I don't believe it's an [i]everybody's in on it [/i]conspiracy, lol. But the rotten fruit is there nevertheless.]

You're absolutely right, Lauren: chicken pox did not kill you and me and tons of others are proof.

Now we have another fire on our hands...it's looks well like our 9 yr old has a form of autism (loosely defined under PDD: Pervasive Developmental Disorder). And just as we were finally for the 1st time in her life, finding some explanation for why she is the way she is, the APP articles about the toxic amt of mercury in vaccines (enough preservative for a 200 lb baby, or some such gross equivalent) from about 1991-98' appear. You know you're in big trouble -that it's really and truly true- when the mainstream finally begins reporting on this.

The majority of our children I dutifully delivered during those years to be innoculated. And it always irritated me, tho I thought (of course) I was doing the right thing. Why must the baby be given shots at [i]2 months [/i]of age? Man, my cat didn't have to go through 1/4 of what my children did.

Marie, I have gone round with the pediatrician somewhat about this. You'd be surprised. He's pro-life, Catholic, belongs to a very conservative parish,...and disagrees with me. I have shown him lists about the tainted shots. I dunno, and I don't care what his deal is, it doesn't make sense.

No, until someone can prove to me they aren't using killed-baby cells, and s**t to maybe give my daughter PDD, or set her (me??? Mama "proudly" had me have every shot) up to more easily develop autoimmune disease, or bipolar or who knows what, [b] no vaccines[/b].

They can [i]stuff [/i]it.

Here's the link you need, by the Catholic Doctors, given to the Bishops.

[url="http://www.cogforlife.org/fetalvaccinetruth.htm"]http://www.cogforlife.org/fetalvaccinetruth.htm[/url]

Here are the table of contents of this document: (I couldn't edit the jumbled and skipped lines here, sorry.)


The Abortions and Intention of Creating Vaccines

The Need for Further Fetal Tissue

False Notion of Immortality

New Aborted Fetal Cell Lines



Encouraging Further Abortions & Research

Hunt for Fresh Fetuses

Re-asserting Roe - Incentive to Abort

Perceived Public Acceptance

Crystal Clear Complicity



Moral Obligations
The Disease and the Vaccine – Rubella

The Disease and the Vaccine – Chickenpox
The Cell Lines Themselves

The Good of Society?

The Problem with Remote Material Cooperation
Catholic Persecution
Parents & Physicians Speak Out

Striving for Holiness

Moral Conscience
Proper Formation of Conscience
Right of Conscience Must Be Protected

Summary

____________________________________

OK, so I always thought deep down, according to the Faith, that it was wrong, once I knew, to use the tainted vaccines. Hmm, ask the doc about untainted ones? He didn't even agree that the tainted ones are tainted!

So we opt out using the conscience clause, for school.

But now I've a host of other - natural - reasons for refusing the vaccines as well.

And PS: for the sake of Dominic's health, I'd encourage you to look into the research that the child should have a much more developed immune system (I wanto say age four) before having a shot of any kind.

Good going for looking into this, Mom.

Edited May 16, 2007 by Lil Red
fixed smilie

[marielapin]

Thanks, Donna. I kind of feel like I'm out in left field being appalled by this.

I have some further questions for you, if you don't mind.

One: I am very very sorry to hear about your child that might have autism. This is also a fear of mine. Do you think it came from one vaccine alone? (MMR at one point was linked to autism and is still banned in other countries because of this)

Two: Were you able to get the ethical vaccines?

Three: Are you waiting until age four to get vaccinations at all? I mean, are you waiting until then to give them the vaccines that are regularly scheduled for the two month olds, etc.


Even though vaccination is touted as being such a wonderful thing, I felt uncomfortable giving them to such a young baby, due to the list of possible side effects (including death). I do not see a point to a vaccine for chickenpox, after all, more people die of things like the flu than chicken pox every year.

[marielapin]

Some more thoughts:

Do you guys remember a post made by cmom earlier on PM, about organ donation? Apparantly some doctors, who see a patient that is an organ donor, are less likely to try their best to help save this patient's life, in order to procure their organs for someone else. I would think that an organ procured in this way may be good for the recipient because it benefits them (and they certainly did not will that the person be left to die for their sake) but it is still tainted because of the doctor's intent. I would think if the recipient KNEW that the person had been "murdered" in order to procure their organ, they would refuse.

We have been talking alot lately about fetal stem cell research. Nothing has come of it lately, but if a cure for cancer were found, even though it is a "good" in that it would benefit others, it is not the "good" that God would will, because it is a good that comes through evil means.

Likewise, Merck needed cell lines from babies at the moment they were aborted (so they needed foreknowledge of the event) in order to make these vaccines. They just didn't go and acquire some random baby corpse to get these cells. There are ethical vaccines for these same diseases that are made today. In supporting Merck's product and not supporting the ethical one is saying Merck's means are just as good as the other's. I read an article earlier that Merck will have to procure more abortions in the future to keep up this cell line. God may have allowed good to come from Merck, but it is not His ultimate good, because it uses an intrinsically evil act to benefit others. Yet we have in our means a way to support a vaccine which is the same good from ethical means. We have the obligation to uphold His ultimate good.

[Dreamweaver]

I want to add something that I've heard about regarding "opting out" of immunizations. Even if you opt out of a vaccine, it is highly unlikely that the unvaccinated person will get the disease, due to "herd immunity". Lets say that Vaccine X is is a mandatory vaccine. 99/100 children receive the vaccine, so the virus has only 1 person out of 100 that it can infect. Since there are few hosts for the virus, it won't be able to establish a foothold in that country/area. Even without immunization, the individual is "protected" by a barrier of immune individuals.

A word on caution. I knew someone in high school that came down with a bad case of diptheria because she didn't get that immunization as a child (parents forgot? I don't know for sure).

If you decide to opt your children out from immunizations, you might want to keep that in mind if they travel overseas or in areas that are more prone to outbreaks and infections.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Apr 21 2005, 07:22 PM'] I want to add something that I've heard about regarding "opting out" of immunizations. Even if you opt out of a vaccine, it is highly unlikely that the unvaccinated person will get the disease, due to "herd immunity". Lets say that Vaccine X is is a mandatory vaccine. 99/100 children receive the vaccine, so the virus has only 1 person out of 100 that it can infect. Since there are few hosts for the virus, it won't be able to establish a foothold in that country/area. Even without immunization, the individual  is "protected" by a barrier of immune individuals. [/quote]
I spoke with a doctor friend today about this issue. He had no idea the human diploid cells were used in various vaccines.

He brought up the exact same point as Dreamweaver. He said that the chances of an unvaccinated child actually getting chicken pox (or whatever else) is very slim due to the lack of the virus in the environment, mainly because almost everyone else has been vaccinated.

He also said he is hesitant to tell this to parents because if the child does happen to get the virus, he doesn't want to be liable. Kind of sad and infuriating all at the same time.

Oddly enough, Merck also manufactures alternatives to the MMR that do not use human diploid cells. They are Attenuvax and Mumpsvax. I would say the majority of doctors would not have any problems ordering these for you instead of the MMR. The doctors are still paid for these by the insurance companies, so its no loss for them. There is no alternative to the rubella shot, as was mentioned earlier in this thread.

marielapin, I have to agree with you that we have the obligation to uphold His ultimate good. Your post had some excellent points that really made me think and will hopefully give food for thought for other parents facing this situation.

[marielapin]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Apr 21 2005, 09:22 PM']

marielapin, I have to agree with you that we have the obligation to uphold His ultimate good. Your post had some excellent points that really made me think and will hopefully give food for thought for other parents facing this situation. [/quote]
Thanks Carrie,

For a while there I felt like the one of the only ones who cared about this.

[Carrie]

[quote name='marielapin' date='Apr 26 2005, 12:08 AM']Thanks Carrie,

For a while there I felt like the one of the only ones who cared about this.[/quote]
No problem


I know I wouldn't feel morally right if I gave my children these vaccines, after learning about this. Basically, the ends don't justify the means, especially when there are some alternatives.

[Donna]

Hi, Marielapin! Am back now, finally.

(First, Dreamweaver, yes that's the rub: there's a possibility my child might get very sick -the hs girl w/ diptheria- and you beging feeling like a crackpot from that sect who won't even give their children medical care.)

Good questions.

As of now, I am not positive of the vaccine/PDD connection with our sweet girl, but do think it's entirely possible the MMR is the cause.

I tried to get the ethecial vaccines, but as I said, our Ped. didn't even cop to the "regular" ones being tainted. Sigh. I haven't had time to look into a different Ped. what w/ all I've had on my plate.

And I think it's VERY good you are pursuing untainted vaccines!

As of now, we're not waiting 'til age anything to give the vaccines. We're not doing them. My remark was aimed for if you decide to have Dominic innoculated, or innoculated any further.

Do you need any more truth-in-vaccination links?

Great point about Merck, and the foreknowledge required to procure the poor baby's Parts. Related pint, there is something called The Michael Fund, which does research in a Catholic ethical way...wish I could remember more about them, but a housewife of vast spunk and intellect, Randy Engler, began it, God bless her!

I'm really proud of you...what does your (Protestant, right?) Mom think of all this?

[IcePrincessKRS]

So far our kids are un-vaccinated. I did know about some of them being abortion derrived so we've been looking into things, when we decide to get some of them done we will be making sure we get them from ethical sources, shots that don't have mercury in them, etc. Really I would like for my girls to have at least DTP. I will NOT give them the chicken pox vaccination, and I'm kind of on the fence about MMR. I've never had my final MMR shot and I'm doing just fine. I also read that vaccinations are only effective for about 11 years? Has any one else heard that? What are the chances of our kids getting one of these illnesses before they're 11? I dunno... we're waiting until our girls are at least 2 years old. We have nieces and nephews who've never been vaccinated and they are some of the healthiest kids I've ever met, so if we do decide not to vaccinate in the long run I feel pretty safe and confident with that decision.

[homeschoolmom]

silly double posting...

[homeschoolmom]

changed my mind.

[marielapin]

[quote name='Donna' date='Apr 26 2005, 09:44 AM']
I'm really proud of you...what does your (Protestant, right?) Mom think of all this? [/quote]
1. She doesn't know.

2. If she did, she would probably think I am issuing my child a death warrant for rubella. (when I'm sick she's always super worried, even if its nothing serious)


I'm actually considering putting off vaccinations as a while for a while yet.

[marielapin]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Apr 26 2005, 06:09 PM'] changed my mind. [/quote]
so hsmom, what do you think of all this? I am very curious.

[Guest pro-lifemomma4]

I have a bunch of literature from cogforlife. I tried talking to my childrens doctor who is practicing catholic and she said ,"well, then your child can't have any vaccinations." She said she looked everywhere in her books I assume and couldn't find any info of this. Of course she wouldn't take the literature I had that tells her what medical journal this info is in. Yes, all of our children are being injected with cell lines from aborted babies. I haven't decided what to do. It makes me ill to think of my child to get vaccinated. Then, I am frightened with all this biological warfare and disease not too. I asked about the alternative vaccines and she said she had to order one before for a child who could not have the shot because of something else in the shot and if she remembers correctly, it was 2,000 for one shot. Then she asked if I wanted her to order one and it was really hard to be Catholic. She knows regular people don't have the money to pay for that. My 2 older children are completely vaccinated. My other two children, my little girl has had a few shots, my son has had one shot as soon as he was born. I thought it was not one with aborted babies in it but after I returned home, I was upset to find out it is in that one too. To get the cell strands they need, all the have to do is take a cotton swab and wipe the inside of the cheeck of an infected person(whatever vaccine you are making) and you can make it from there. But the abortion industry makes so many millions of dollars, thats what these companies listen too. Not morality. They have a boycott page too on the website. If it became very public, could you imagine the outcry for ethical vaccines! How could we get it out there so the whole nation knows? Let us all pray, God have mercy. Peace in Christ, Michele

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='marielapin' date='Apr 26 2005, 10:41 PM'] so hsmom, what do you think of all this? I am very curious. [/quote]
Honestly, I'll have to research it more. We are currently "up to date" for a good long while, so I'll have plenty of time. Our next shots would be when HSbaby is 5 (he's 18 months).

[Jake Huether]

Have you guys seen this?

[url="http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/vacprotect2.html"]http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/vacprotect2.html[/url]


Maybe I shouldn't even vaccinate my kids...

Grrrr. What to do? what to do?

God, grant me the grace to know what I should do. Amen.

[marielapin]

I am currently holding Dominic from getting any more vaccines until he is at least two. I am still trying to do research on whether I should give him any vaccinations any more at all.

[avemaria40]

u no wat's sad? Ppl care more about animals than unborn babies, i care about animals as well, but unborn babies have the right to live

[Norseman82]

Physicians for Life might be able to refer people to doctors who use the "ethical" vaccines.

[url="http://www.physiciansforlife.org/"]http://www.physiciansforlife.org/[/url]

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Jake Huether' date='Jul 20 2005, 12:41 PM']Grrrr.  What to do?  what to do?[right][snapback]651106[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


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