I have 3 questions

[Pilgrim]

[quote]I'd like to see it in latin. The word issue may not exist there. [/quote]

Unfortunately all of the original Greek documents have been lost to antiquity. All we have left are a few letters between Eastern bishops and fragments of a synodal decree and creed (the Nicene Creed).

You're entirely right; I imagine a good theologian would phrase the 1-2-3 formula more carefully. But as a paraphrased explanation it seems to work well in a pastoral setting for us common folk.

Edited April 29, 2005 by Pilgrim

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Apr 28 2005, 09:36 AM'] [/quote]
[quote]Once you have accepted the omnipotence of God there are no limitations on the power of His creation.[/quote]

At the same time He would not do anything contrary to His nature

[quote]Therefore he could have created an appropriate sacrafice. [/quote]

Unless it was contrary to His nature. I hope to prove this to my worthy opponent in a sec.


[quote]Further there is no reason that the Sacrifice had to be infinite. Sin is finite.[/quote]

Attonement and compensation is not based on the offending but the offended. (This from Anslem)

[quote] Further there is no reason that the Sacrifice had to be infinite sin is finite, there is no reason it could not have simply been proportional to the finite ammount of sin that would exist in the entire life of the world. This is not to defend Arius just  a point of logic.[/quote]

This is not to deny the Valid Logic of Arius as advocated (obviously with out support) by John the Don of Austria, but to show the falsness of the premises.

Well, I want to post more, but I do not have the time. Look forward to more later.

[Theoketos]

This is from the Dialogue between Jesus and St. Catherine of Sienna
The Dialogue, 3:

Do you not know, my daughter, that all the sufferings the soul bears or can bear in this life are not enough to punish one smallest sin? For an offense against me, infinite Good, demands infinite satisfaction. So I want you to know that not all sufferings given in this life are given for punishment. but rather for correction, to chastise the child who offends. However it is true that a soul's desire, that is, true contrition and sorrow for sin, can make satisfaction. True contrition satisfies for sin and its penalty not by virtue of any finite suffering you may bear, but by virtue of your infinite desire. For God, who is infinite, would have infinite love and infinite sorrow.

The infinite sorrow God wills is twofold: for the offense you yourself have committed against your Creator, and for the offense you see on your neighbors' part. Because those who have such sorrow have infinite desire and are one with me in loving affection (which is why they grieve when they sin or see others sinning), every suffering they bear from any source at all, in spirit or in body, is of infinite worth, and so satisfies for the offense that deserved an infinite penalty. True, these are finite deeds in finite time. But because their virtue is practiced and their suffering borne with infinite desire and contrition and sorrow for sin, it has value.


So the glorious apostle Paul taught: "If I had angelic tongue, knew the future, gave what is mine to the poor, and gave my body to be burned, but did not have charity, it would be worth nothing to me." Finite works are not enough either to punish or to atone unless they are seasoned with loving charity.

PS Today is the feast day of St. Catherine