Software and Music Downloads

[return2truth]

Being a computer geek, I have the ability to download almost everything off of the Internet for my personal use: music, computer programs, movies, you name it. The problems is I do not have a legal (as defined by the laws of man) claim to any of these things. Furthermore, I do not consider it stealing in the traditional sense because no one is being deprived of their property; a new instance of the the item in question is created during the download. I do not think that "Thou shalt not steal," ever took into consideration our ability to replicate, free of charge, items that we want.

This being said I still feel it is a sin, but I cannot seem to put my finger on an appropriate label for it.

What do you guys think of this issue?

[toledo_jesus]

if it is copyrighted it is the intellectual property of somebody. You steal a person's ideas in a paper, it's plagiarism. You download music without the artists consent, you steal from him. It is a sin. Free programs on the Net are there to be downloaded, but if they want money for it and you get it without paying, that means you stole it.

[philothea]

[quote name='return2truth' date='May 3 2005, 08:14 AM'] Being a computer geek, I have the ability to download almost everything off of the Internet for my personal use: music, computer programs, movies, you name it. The problems is I do not have a legal (as defined by the laws of man) claim to any of these things. Furthermore, I do not consider it stealing in the traditional sense because no one is being deprived of their property; a new instance of the the item in question is created during the download. I do not think that "Thou shalt not steal," ever took into consideration our ability to replicate, free of charge, items that we want.

This being said I still feel it is a sin, but I cannot seem to put my finger on an appropriate label for it.

What do you guys think of this issue? [/quote]
We're supposed to obey the laws of the country we reside in (so long as they don't make us do immoral things). So, downloading copyrighted things would be wrong.

Unfortunately, I also think the members of RIAA are a bunch of evil scumbags, and I won't give them money. This means my music choices are very limited.

[Ash Wednesday]

I agree. I have had friends say "Well I'm not using this software for commercial purposes" but they are still supporting the pirates that distribute. I pay full price for the software I have for my business and it's activity like pirating that ups the price for those of us that do pay.

It's just not sensible economics, either. I used that line of argument towards my brother (who downloads tunes but was an econ major) and he got kind of defensive...

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

Justification of stealing is almost as grave as the act of stealing. The reason you feel it is stealing is because it is stealing, but our society has tried to justify it, so you have this implanted reasoning that it is ok, BECAUSE of "X" reason. It is the same with anything else:

Abortion is ok because of "X".
Fornication is ok because of "X".
Murder is ok because of "X".

People since the beginning of time have provided perverted and illogical reasons for the justification of immoral acts. That doesn't mean they are "ok".

Simple answer: It is wrong because you are stealing the artists/production companies rights to the product. You pay for the rights to use the product (for private use most often) when you buy something. Thus, downloading a song/movie is wrong because you do not have those rights.

(Same goes with burning a CD for a friend.)

Totus Tuus,
Andrew Joseph

[cmotherofpirl]

If you already have the music in a different format it is fine to download it.

[philothea]

One more thing to keep in mind: there is the concept of "fair use", though groups like the RIAA are trying to get rid of it. You can download something to listen to for a day, and then you delete it. You can make copies for your own use. You can keep small, representative portions, etc.

Copyright law is not quite as restrictive as the copyright owners often portray it.

[Cathurian]

Wait, so it's ok to download for one day under fair use?

Or do I have it wrong?

[jezic]

if you can possibly get the music legally (like buying it from a store) then yes i think it is a sin.

If you are downloading a song to listen to it and see if you want to buy the cd then don't do it and use the previews from amazon.

[philothea]

[quote name='Cathurian' date='May 3 2005, 03:56 PM'] Wait, so it's ok to download for one day under fair use?

Or do I have it wrong? [/quote]
As far as I have ever heard, 24 hour downloaded copies are covered under fair use.

[AngelofJesus]

To me it basically comes down to the owner's permission.

If he gives you permission to download and not pay for his music then it is not a sin. If he explicitly prohibits such actions and does not want anybody distrubiting nor playing the music without paying for it, but you do it anyway, then it is a sin.

In reality, the question is, have you violated someone's right to property, profit? If so, is this showing love? What is God, if not love?

[Angel]

I have downloaded a few songs off of file sharing, but i dont really feel its a sin. Its legal here in Canada there are no laws against it, so until that day happens i guess its ok. When something is against the law, then i will not do it. The few times i have gotten to listen to the artists music, lets me hear them and really like them then yes i will buy their cd I have money, i just find it good if you want to sample music first before buying the whole album. I can understand with some artists tho like if all their music was being downloaded and absolutely no one was buying it, then it would seem pretty unfair. But many people are still buying, and people are also sampling, but i dont think its a sin.

[cmotherofpirl]

The laws are silly. If I go to a flea market and buy an album for 10 cents I am entitled to download the music, but if I don't pay the 10 cents I can get in trouble.

Edited May 4, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Q the Ninja]

Actually, that only works because of the fact that the person before you paid for it.

[cmotherofpirl]

Or the person before them or the person before them.....

[Q the Ninja]

LoL, yes...but after you sell the CD, you sell your rights too.

[return2truth]

[quote name='Angel' date='May 3 2005, 04:55 PM'] I have downloaded a few songs off of file sharing, but i dont really feel its a sin. Its legal here in Canada there are no laws against it, so until that day happens i guess its ok. When something is against the law, then i will not do it. The few times i have gotten to listen to the artists music, lets me hear them and really like them then yes i will buy their cd I have money, i just find it good if you want to sample music first before buying the whole album. I can understand with some artists tho like if all their music was being downloaded and absolutely no one was buying it, then it would seem pretty unfair. But many people are still buying, and people are also sampling, but i dont think its a sin. [/quote]
I spoke with my parish priest yesterday who just so happens to be the vicar general of the diocese (second-in-command to the bishop), so I had a great oppourtunity to discuss the nature of sin with him and listen to his esteemed opinion. He told me that one of the biggest moral issues in the world today is when a particular set of actions or behaviors that in and of themselves are immoral are permitted by the law of the land and are not classified as illegal. He told me that people tend to reason that if something is permitted by law then it must also be moral or at least make an effort to justify the immorality.

After his talk, and thanks to all of your opinions, I have decided to systematically buy all of the software that I use that I have downloaded. I cannot outright stop using it, because my livelihood depends upon it, but I am working towards making amends.