Bush more Catholic than JP2?

[philothea]

Is there a proper term for someone who is, erm, canonizable, but before they die? I mean an obviously holy person.

[guardsman]

[quote name='Ordo.Teutonicorum' date='May 9 2005, 01:06 AM'] If I'm not mistaken, the terminology of a saint being a believer is pure born-again fundamentalist protestant nonsense. [/quote]
It's actually in our CATHOLIC BIBLE.

[Ordo.Teutonicorum]

[quote name='guardsman' date='May 8 2005, 11:23 PM'] It's actually in our CATHOLIC BIBLE. [/quote]
NIV isn't Catholic.

[guardsman]

[quote name='Ordo.Teutonicorum' date='May 9 2005, 01:25 AM'] NIV isn't Catholic. [/quote]
I'm aware of that. But the interpretation-Holy Ones"- which comes from the New American Bible (Catholic) means the same thing. What are we arguing about again? John Paul II can't be called a saint yet? Bull.

[philothea]

[url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts9.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts9.htm[/url]

Acts 9
[quote] 13    But Ananias replied, "Lord, I have heard from many sources about this man, what evil things he has done to your holy ones in Jerusalem. [/quote]

Footnote
[quote]4 [13] Your holy ones: literally, "your saints."[/quote]

Just a matter of translation. Our language is not that precisely delineated.

Edited May 9, 2005 by philothea

[Aloysius]

the term was used in scripture differently, if you want to be like St. Paul then call JPII a holy man. the translation "saint" means specifically one who is in heaven, and with a capital S it means a popular saint, someone we know absolutley to be in heaven because of the infallible Church.

St. Paul didn't call people saints... he addressed it to the holy people; as in if you are or want to be holy heed these words. at that point his only distinction would be to say the holy ones who have fallen asleep... but now we're so cool we have two seperate words for it. deal with it this is 3rd millenium english terminology.. and very old Latin terminology at that, not first century greek before they had come up with a term. next thing you know we'll be arguing over why st. paul never said 'transubstantiation'

don't call people saints, because saints are people in heaven. and don't call every little Christian a "holy one" neither, unless you're like Saint Paul and you're addressing it in a letter and thus basically saying 'to those who follow Christ' or 'to those who strive after holiness'

[guardsman]

[quote name='philothea' date='May 9 2005, 01:35 AM'] [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts9.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts9.htm[/url]

Acts 9


Footnote


Just a matter of translation. Our language is not that precisely delineated. [/quote]
Thank You Philothea. Is the New American Bible Catholic enough for you guys telling me believers aren't saints?

[guardsman]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='May 9 2005, 01:40 AM']

don't call people saints, because saints are people in heaven. and don't call every little Christian a "holy one" neither, unless you're like Saint Paul and you're addressing it in a letter and thus basically saying 'to those who follow Christ' or 'to those who strive after holiness' [/quote]
Show me official Catholic teaching that says believers aren't called saints, and I will listen. Until then, I'll trust what my Catholic translation of the Bible says. (New American Bible, St. Joseph Edition)

[philothea]

Furthermore, from the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on the Communion of Saints:

[quote]The communion of saints is the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices. [b]The participants in that solidarity are called saints[/b] by reason of their destination and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption (I Cor., i, 2-Greek Text). The damned are thus excluded from the communion of saints.[/quote]

[guardsman]

[quote name='philothea' date='May 9 2005, 01:48 AM'] Furthermore, from the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on the Communion of Saints:

[/quote]
Philothea-Thank you again. We may convince these people yet. Gotta love those Catholic Encyclopedias.

[guardsman]

I'm still wondering what the many things I am mistaken about are.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='philothea' date='May 9 2005, 01:48 AM'] Furthermore, from the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on the Communion of Saints:

The communion of saints is the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices. The participants in that solidarity are called saints by reason of their destination and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption (I Cor., i, 2-Greek Text). The damned are thus excluded from the communion of saints.

[/quote]
[quote]The communion of saints is the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices. The participants in that solidarity are called saints by reason of their destination and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption (I Cor., i, 2-Greek Text). [color=red]The damned are thus excluded from the communion of saints.[/color][/quote]


Do you know that JPII is not Damned... now I am certianly not saying that he was I am asking if you KNOW that he was not, the Church doesn't and thus like all dead people we do not speak of him as a saint unless he is a Saint. It is improper.