Rainbow Sash

[Scofizzle]

[quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='May 16 2005, 09:11 AM'] I should of toned it down your right.

I was upset when I wrote it.

I mean, how many times have we heard from bishops that say 'We'll look into it' only to find out that nothing has been done.

I wrote about St Joan of Arc LAST YEAR! and its STILL going on.

Plus I wasnt really talking about him as much as I was the Priests. [/quote]
you never know maybe those are the exact words that he needs to hear....

[Jaime]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='May 16 2005, 09:06 AM'] I would tone it down a bit. [/quote]
I'm with Thessalonian.

Archbishop Flynn has historically demonstrated that he gives respect when respect is given. When it isn't given, he's got no patience or time for you.

[quote] Id rather be a small but faithful Church than a huge Church filled with mediocrity and poor Bishops.[/quote]

How can he take that line to mean anything but an attack on him personally? And its out of line. Archbishop Flynn has been a wonderful bishop for the Archdiocese.

Its too bad that it has been sent out already. Perhaps a letter of apology would be appropriate.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='May 16 2005, 09:11 AM'] I should of toned it down your right.

I was upset when I wrote it.

I mean, how many times have we heard from bishops that say 'We'll look into it' only to find out that nothing has been done.

I wrote about St Joan of Arc LAST YEAR! and its STILL going on.

Plus I wasnt really talking about him as much as I was the Priests. [/quote]
It is upsetting and I understand your frustration. This archbishop is orthodox but his approach is purely pastoral. He has written me that he intends to teach these things out of people. Well I think his approach is unbalanced biblically. He does respond to respectful emails so yes, I would tone it down.

Blessings

[Scofizzle]

or a letter of correction....stating what you really meant

[CatholicAndFanatical]

[quote]
How can he take that line to mean anything but an attack on him personally?
[/quote]

Because I felt that most Bishops allow things to happen because we already have a Priest shortage and to discipline more Priests and take them out of Priesthood would furthur the damage.

When in all reality taking the bad ones out WILL make us a smaller Church, but would also be more faithful.

My point to that was to say 'Who cares if were smaller, do whats right'

and we'll see if you guys are right about him being Orthodox and Faithful.

If these Priests get disciplined, THEN I'll believe you. But I have heard time and time again from Bishops that something will happen when nothing really does.

If he is so good, He'll do something quickly.

[Jaime]

[quote]We did not prevent anyone from recieving communion last year and were not actively trying to prevent them from recieving. I do not accept your words of reprimand as the judge.[/quote]

Thessalonian

You and I have been round and round on this. I have great respect for the fact that you love the Church so dearly and I have even more respect and admiration that you went to your confessor subsequently for counsel on the matter. You are correct that it is now between you and your confessor.

However to claim that you were not actively trying to prevent anyone from receiving is on the same level as the Sashwearers saying that they weren't protesting.

You knelt in the aisles during Communion
You prayed together the Hail Mary out loud during Communion

Both are a violation of the rubrics of Mass. You know that.

And my point was (and still remains) The Ushers of the Eucharist were specifically requested by the Archbishop to not do anything.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='May 16 2005, 08:50 AM']Priest Denies Gay Supporters Communion
Sunday, May 15, 2005

{snip}

Ann McComas-Bussa did not wear a sash, but she and her husband and three children all wore rainbow-colored ribbons and were denied communion. "As a Catholic, I just need to stand in solidarity with those that are being oppressed," she said.[color=red]Opressed? Please.[/color]

{snip}

[/quote]
[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='May 16 2005, 09:06 AM']
Hmmm... how about the need to stand in solidarity with those who are in authority over you?[/quote]
The Catholic church is what is being opressed by this 'protest'.

If they where true to their words, the rainbow sash would respect the beliefs of the Catholic church and leave us alone.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

ok, I sent a letter of correction to the Bishop.

I didnt recant anything I said but rather said that I wrote out of anger and didnt mean to sound harsh.

I told him to understand that I wrote about St Joan of Arc last year and still the same thing goes on.

Ill post any replies that I may get.

God Bless

[Jaime]

Well done!! Writing your bishop is always the best course of action. A letter of correction shows your humanity and more importantly, your integrity!!

Way to go!!

[thessalonian]

[quote]However to claim that you were not actively trying to prevent anyone from receiving is on the same level as the Sashwearers saying that they weren't protesting. [/quote]

No. It is not. We were fully instructed to let them pass and not prevent them from recieving before hand. I make no judgements against those who disagree with me and understand your viewpoint. By the way I was not in the group that was praying the Hail Mary and don't think I would have done that out loud. We did go against his wishes as far as we went but like you said it is between I and my confessor. No point going round and round.

Blessings

Edited May 16, 2005 by thessalonian

[CatholicAndFanatical]

I wasnt in this discussion and have no clue what you and hot stuff are talking about, none of my bitness, however, just a question: did the Bishop say they could recieve communion or just to not stop them and let the Priests handle it??

[Jaime]

Last year Archbishop Flynn said that no one would be denied communion. This year he said that if anyone approached wearing a sash, they would receive a blessing.

Last year there was a group called the Ushers of the Eucharist who stated publically that they would "place ourselves between our Lord and those who would desecrate Him in the Eucharist." Archbishop Flynn released a letter handed out at all masses directing that no one try to block anyone from receiving.

Thessalonian is correct in saying that no one was prevented. He and I have a polite disagreement on whether or not the Ushers disobeyed the bishop on this matter.

He and I have hashed it out and have amicably decided to "agree to disagree" (I'm pretty sure its amicable Thess?)

Edited May 16, 2005 by jaime

[CatholicAndFanatical]

perfectly understandable on both sides.

I wrote my Priest about the Sash people on Friday. Warning him, if he didnt already know, that they would try something.

I pointed out to him that if the Bishop said those people can recieve that it would not be disobediance to go against the Bishops wishes because he would be following a higher authority, the Vatican.

If our Bishop told us that they could still recieve you think Id listen to him? Nope because he is in contempt and should be disobeyed.

However, thats just my humble opinion and my two cents.

God Bless

[thessalonian]

[quote]He and I have hashed it out and have amicably decided to "agree to disagree" (I'm pretty sure its amicable Thess?) [/quote]

Yes.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='May 16 2005, 09:49 AM'] I wasnt in this discussion and have no clue what you and hot stuff are talking about, none of my bitness, however, just a question: did the Bishop say they could recieve communion or just to not stop them and let the Priests handle it?? [/quote]
Last year he said they could recieve. This year he told the priests to deny them communion.

Blessings

[Jaime]

[quote]If our Bishop told us that they could still recieve you think Id listen to him? Nope because he is in contempt and should be disobeyed[/quote]

And you would be correct. He was directly informed by the Vatican not to allow it.

Now if Mr Pence wanted to start a campaign to suggest that all of us not go receive Communion next year at Pentecost, I would be a huge supporter of that!!!

[Didacus]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='May 16 2005, 10:20 AM']
And you would be correct.  He was directly informed by the Vatican not  to allow it.

Now if Mr Pence wanted to start a campaign to suggest that all of us not go receive Communion next year at Pentecost, I would be a huge supporter of that!!![/quote]
I would strongly disagree. We cannot let ourselves change our habits because of a protest. To do so would be giving them a moral vistory (Probably just about the only moral these indivicuals would have).

What if they decide to protest in this sort every sunday of the year? Would you not go to church at all for that year?



I would like to see a Bishop address this issue publicly, clainming the 'protest's' issue was that of common Catholic practise and church doctrine as to who may receive the body of Christ (i.e. someone with the sacraments and in communion with the Church). The sash wearers clearly failed to qualify.

Claim that as the issue with the church simply worshipping within their faith, instead of an issue of 'celebrating sexuality' which is ridiculous! Since when to we go to church to celebrate sexuality of ANY form? This is perversed indeed...

(this would be a down-play of an 'issue' sourced from outside the church. Since church doctrine was observed, there really was no issue and those churches who failed the church doctrine would be reprimanded as per church policy)

[Jaime]

Didacus

Part of the Ministers of the Eucharist protest last year was that they refused to go up and accept Communion. That is a very reasonable response.

We are not required to receive every week.

The Sash movement chooses Pentecost to make their demonstration every year. If they were the only ones to go up to receive (and were only blessed) while the rest of us sat there, I think it would make a very strong statement about how the congregation feels about their protest. We would be united in our defense of the Body of Christ.

If the Sash movement decided to protest weekly, that would be an entirely different story.

[Didacus]

hot stuff

(est-ce que tu parle francais?)

I agree it would be a very strong statement and it is true we are not required to receive every week.

The only part of the idea I strongly dislike is 'because they desire to profane our church, we decide not to practice on that particular Sunday'. It just does not seem rigth to me. Then again, their entire 'protest' does not seem right.

Why do they feel they have to change our minds and the church anyways? They ask to be accepted as different, yet they try and force others to agree with them. They strike me a hypocritical group.

[Jaime]

Didacus

You are correct in your assessment of them. Their actions are not helpful in any way.

I actually wrote the head of the Sash Movement here in the MPLS St Paul area. I wrote that Abp Flynn had shown respect to his group for years and his group should return the respect. If his group was truly not protesting but celebrating, then their best course of action would be to not go up and receive. If they did try, they would be lieing when they said they weren't a protest group.

He wrote back and talked about "primacy of conscience" (nobody ever understands that term) and that the archbishop had never accepted an invitation to meet with him.

His group is a sham and a lie. They've demonstrated that they have no respect for the authority of their (our) bishop.