who is asleep in Christ?

[daugher-of-Mary]

how would you answer this?

[quote]Now to the question:
Who is asleep in Christ?

1 Thessalonians 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

If you couple this with:

John 14
1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
4 And where I go you know, and the way you know."
5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

They way I read this Jesus is at this very moment preparing a place for his bride. To my knowledge he has not returned with a shout yet and I am eagerly waiting for that. This gets me back to the original question of who is asleep in Christ. My understanding of this is anyone who died after either Jesus was resurrected or after he ascended (not sure which on this).

If I hold to my understanding of this Mary is not in heaven with Jesus but is asleep and waiting for his return. If this is the case then Mary cannot intercede for anyone as she is not in heaven as of yet.

I would like to understand this from a Catholic point of view.
[/quote]

[phatcatholic]

your board is filled with Seventh-Day Adventists, who believe in "soul sleep" this notion that your spirit remains w/ your body or in some other dimension until the second coming. this means that there is no heaven or hell for anyone until Jesus comes again. we are all just "asleep." i have never debated this before, so i can't draw from personal experience. here are some articles that may help:

--[url="http://web.globalserve.net/~bumblebee/ecclesia/soulslep.htm"]The Bible Disproves Soul Sleep[/url]
--[url="http://hometown.aol.com/philvaz/articles/num10.htm"]Examination of Conditional Immortality, "Soul Sleep" and "Annihilationism"[/url]
--[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20030612192317/http://home.global.co.za/~skorsman/sda/soulslp.html"]The State of the Dead: Alive in Christ, or Dead and Forgotten?[/url]
--[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20030112114350/http://www.catholicsource.net/articles/hell.htm"]What the Hell?: The Biblical Doctrine of Everlasting Punishment for the Wicked[/url]
--[url="http://www.ratzlaf.com/Dale%20Intro.pdf"]A Dead Doctrine?[/url] ([b]note:[/b] or [url="http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:faxNJPsOcsoJ:www.ratzlaf.com/Dale%2520Intro.pdf+&hl=en"][b]html[/b][/url]) *
--[url="http://www.ratzlaf.com/Saul%20%26%20Samuel%20Gladson.pdf"]Rethinking Life After Death[/url] *
--[url="http://www.ratzlaf.com/Streifling%20Death.pdf"]The Nature of Man and Death[/url] ([b]note:[/b] or [url="http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:fNyzxOC5zwYJ:www.ratzlaf.com/Streifling%2520Death.pdf+&hl=en"][b]html[/b][/url]) *
--[url="http://www.ratzlaf.com/Dale%202%20Cor.pdf"]Paul and the Afterlife in [b]2 Corinthians 5:1-9[/b][/url] ([b]note:[/b] or [url="http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:pyUyfgVvJUoJ:www.ratzlaf.com/Dale%25202%2520Cor.pdf+&hl=en"][b]html[/b][/url]) *
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705convsb.asp"]A Private Version of Hell[/url]
--[url="http://www.cathinsight.com/apologetics/adventism/hell.htm"]The Eternity of Hell[/url]
--[b]note:[/b] also see the "Heaven" and "Hell" sections of the [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=8020"][b][i]Last Things[/i] entry[/b][/url]

good luck to you!

[Cure of Ars]

If I had to pick a scripture to show that we are with Christ when we die I would pick this one. Paul said,

I am caught between the two. I long to depart this life and be with Christ, (for) that is far better. Yet that I remain (in) the flesh is more necessary for your benefit. (Phil 1:23-24)


We know that Christ is in Heaven awake. And if we are to "be with Christ" when we die we will not be sleeping.